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| From Gavin Willacy at the Guardian:
"My vote helped McQueen become the 11th defeated player to win the man of the match award. Not that he really stood out. Despite looking his usual exhausted self from first minute to last, he just ripped into the Wigan defence every time he got the ball and did that more than most."
Firstly no he didn't. Smithies and Bateman were both better in that detail. Secondly, when has that ever been a good enough reason to award a MOM, let alone the Lance Todd! That award is supposed to be reserved for the player who had the most impact on the game. If that was McQueen I'll start watching a different sport.
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| Quote ="Phuzzy"From Gavin Willacy at the Guardian:
"My vote helped McQueen become the 11th defeated player to win the man of the match award. Not that he really stood out. Despite looking his usual exhausted self from first minute to last, he just ripped into the Wigan defence every time he got the ball and did that more than most."
Firstly no he didn't. Smithies and Bateman were both better in that detail. Secondly, when has that ever been a good enough reason to award a MOM, let alone the Lance Todd! That award is supposed to be reserved for the player who had the most impact on the game. If that was McQueen I'll start watching a different sport.'"
If they had any self-awareness, people like Willacy would have been feeling pretty stupid once that game was over, though I doubt they will.
A close-to-retirement Aussie gets the award for doing his job (i.e. tackling), over a young British halfback who has just won the Challenge Cup for his hometown club with a stroke of genius. Yeah, on reflection I bet that decision feels like the right one down in Guardian Land.
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| Quote ="moto748"And like you, so pleased for Marshall after his cruel luck earlier in his career. So pleased for the lad for whom it clearly means so much. The lads at the back of the coach on the way back were all singing "Liam Marshall, he's one of us!". And that's what it's all about, really, isn't it?'"
A player who for me is is underrated by opposing fans and some Wigan fans.
You never know wingers with pace rather than size may come into fashion again. I've said a few times over the past few years that Martin Offiah wouldn't get a place in today's game hopefully, times are a changing.
Nothing absolutely nothing can substitute for pace and thankfully we have 2 lads who can go the full length of the field on each wing at the moment and a FB who can outrun both wingers. I love it.
I know that you need your grafters to set the platform but give me our second try on Saturday any day of the year over a high speculative kick to the corner for a winger to pounce on a mistake or maybe out jump his opposite winger.
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| Quote ="Big Steve"Looking at stats on tackle busts, breaks, attacking metrics we were far ahead of Hudd's.
I still don't get the perception Hudd's were the better team.
Sure we made some stupid mistakes, we gifted Hudd's field position and possession.
But our quality in attack was far higher, and our defence due to putting ourselves under pressure was far better. Better attack, better defence usually means you deserve to win.'"
On the day I thought that Huddersfield were the better team by quite a margin for most of the 80 minutes however, on watching the game again a lot their territorial advantage was gained by poor handling by ourselves rather than line breaks by Huddersfield. I obviously saw that on Saturday but probably too much beer and disappointment in our opening 20 minutes led me to be overly critical of our display and overstate the effectiveness of a well drilled but a too conservative Huddersfield.
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| Quote ="Itchy Arsenal"On the day I thought that Huddersfield were the better team by quite a margin for most of the 80 minutes however, on watching the game again a lot their territorial advantage was gained by poor handling by ourselves rather than line breaks by Huddersfield. I obviously saw that on Saturday but probably too much beer and disappointment in our opening 20 minutes led me to be overly critical of our display and overstate the effectiveness of a well drilled but [ua too conservative Huddersfield[/u.'"
This was their main cardinal sin. They were never so far ahead of us that a strategy like that didn't come at very high risk.
In the end, it was a calamitous decision and they had no one to blame but themselves.
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| Quote ="Cruncher"This was their main cardinal sin. They were never so far ahead of us that a strategy like that didn't come at very high risk.
In the end, it was a calamitous decision and they had no one to blame but themselves.'"
Maybe. To be fair though, it very almost paid off - and they kept our attack quiet for the most part.
Those saying Huddersfield were the better side are definitely over-egging it, but their approach was a bounce of the ball away from causing an upset (albeit only a slight one).
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| Quote ="Cruncher"This was their main cardinal sin. They were never so far ahead of us that a strategy like that didn't come at very high risk.
In the end, it was a calamitous decision and they had no one to blame but themselves.'"
Spot on.
I respect Watson's coaching ability but thankfully his approach proved to be too cautious.
This season most teams in SL I think are playing a more open style of play which for me can only be good for the game.
Hopefully neutrals watching the game will also appreciate the skills involved in all of the tries scored but our 3 were of a particularly high standard and execution.
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| Quote ="Itchy Arsenal"Spot on.
I respect Watson's coaching ability but thankfully his approach proved to be too cautious.
This season most teams in SL I think are playing a more open style of play which for me can only be good for the game.
Hopefully neutrals watching the game will also appreciate the skills involved in all of the tries scored but our 3 were of a particularly high standard and execution.'"
I think the knowledge that we can execute those plays on the big stage will stand us in good stead going forward. The players will also know if they respect the ball a bit more then this team is capable of great things.
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| Quote ="Itchy Arsenal"Spot on.
I respect Watson's coaching ability but thankfully his approach proved to be too cautious.
.'"
If Saints have any sense they'll appoint Watson as their next coach. He's proven that he's not a flash in the plan and he'll thrive there. Also love the idea of him and Peet battling it out for the next decade too.
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| Quote ="sergeant pepper"If Saints have any sense they'll appoint Watson as their next coach. He's proven that he's not a flash in the plan and he'll thrive there. Also love the idea of him and Peet battling it out for the next decade too.'"
I have a suspicion they'll go after Tony Smith if Woolf leaves.
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| Quote ="MadDogg"I have a suspicion they'll go after Tony Smith if Woolf leaves.'"
What makes you say that?
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| Quote ="sergeant pepper"Quote ="MadDogg"I have a suspicion they'll go after Tony Smith if Woolf leaves.'"
What makes you say that?'"
Not heard anything but wonder if there's more to Smith's decision to leave Hull KR - seems strange if he hasn't got a job lined up. He's got a good record, won the major trophies and likely wouldn't go to the NRL if he did well as he's been here a while. Agree that Watson would be a good shout but suspect he will stick with it at Hudds.
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| Quote ="MadDogg"Not heard anything but wonder if there's more to Smith's decision to leave Hull KR - seems strange if he hasn't got a job lined up. He's got a good record, won the major trophies and likely wouldn't go to the NRL if he did well as he's been here a while. Agree that Watson would be a good shout but suspect he will stick with it at Hudds.'"
Possibly, but it would seem like another step backwards for them. Woolf (no matter what the fans say) ain't Holbrook. Watson could be tho, especially with his age and knowledge of the league.
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| I wonder what the score was when the votes were handed in. I imagine that the experts could only see a Huddersfield win and were going with that narrative.
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| Watched the match back last night and when McQueen scored his try there was a blatant obstruction on Bibby just like the one Singleton was penalised for.
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| Quote ="jaws1"Watched the match back last night and when McQueen scored his try there was a blatant obstruction on Bibby just like the one Singleton was penalised for.'"
Wasn't the same
Without getting all technical Singletons deffo was an obstruction (Irrespective of the swan dive from the defender) - Mcqueen's wasn't - The dummy runner ran through the line on an inside shoulder and Bibby chose to take the runner - Right decision on both
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| Quote ="Jukesays"Wasn't the same
Without getting all technical Singletons deffo was an obstruction (Irrespective of the swan dive from the defender) - Mcqueen's wasn't - The dummy runner ran through the line on an inside shoulder and Bibby chose to take the runner - Right decision on both'"
Correct Bibby initiated contact, right call.
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| Everyone saying that the ref bottled it by not sin binning players should look back at previous Challenge Cup Finals. I can't rememeber a single player being sin binned for at least the last 10 years., Looks like a directive to referee's to me.
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| Quote ="Jukesays"Wasn't the same
Without getting all technical Singletons deffo was an obstruction (Irrespective of the swan dive from the defender) - Mcqueen's wasn't - The dummy runner ran through the line on an inside shoulder and Bibby chose to take the runner - Right decision on both'"
I know what you're saying Jukesy and not disagreeing exactly but the Singleton one was a little more than a swan dive to be fair. He literally jumps to impact with Singleton before he ever gets to the swan dive. He could have easily avoided the collision in which case Singleton would have gone through the line and that would have been no penalty, a fact Jiffy picks up in commentary.
Penalty because of the contact but the contact was initiated by the Huddersfield player so a highly 'milked' one at the very least
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| Quote ="Phuzzy"Penalty because of the contact but the contact was initiated by the Huddersfield player so a highly 'milked' one at the very least'"
A big issue with the current interpretations of the obstruction rule for me.
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| Quote ="Egg Chasing"A big issue with the current interpretations of the obstruction rule for me.'"
Definitely. Shouldn't be a penalty in my opinion as it's borderline cheating and we have enough of that creeping into the game.
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| Quote ="Phuzzy"Definitely. Shouldn't be a penalty in my opinion as it's borderline cheating and we have enough of that creeping into the game.'"
I've not watched the game back, but you regularly see defenders just throw their arms in the air or take a dive rather than even attempt to defend the play and it's, as you say, becoming like borderline cheating.
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| Quote ="Egg Chasing"I've not watched the game back, but you regularly see defenders just throw their arms in the air or take a dive rather than even attempt to defend the play and it's, as you say, becoming like borderline cheating.'"
It's deffo a penalty
Singleton makes no attempt to go on the inside shoulder of the defender, and the defender (Levi) is no more than a yard away from the defender outside him when contacts made so there's no gap before the Contact.
Penalty all day
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| Quote ="Phuzzy"I know what you're saying Jukesy and not disagreeing exactly but the Singleton one was a little more than a swan dive to be fair. He literally jumps to impact with Singleton before he ever gets to the swan dive. He could have easily avoided the collision in which case Singleton would have gone through the line and that would have been no penalty, a fact Jiffy picks up in commentary.
Penalty because of the contact but the contact was initiated by the Huddersfield player so a highly 'milked' one at the very least'"
We'll have to agree to disagree
When Singleton goes through he makes no attempt to get inside of Levi (And there is a big gap on Levi's inside to Chris Hill).
Levi could hardly go any further to his right as he was already only a yard away from his outside defender (He has to hold is defensive line until Singleton isn't an option).
It's Singleton's responsibility to avoid that contact, Levi doesn't go out of his way to take Singleton or choose to take him.
You say "He literally jumps to impact with Singleton before he ever gets to the swan dive He could have easily avoided the collision in which case Singleton would have gone through the line and that would have been no penalty, a fact Jiffy picks up in commentary" - But he couldn't avoid the contact as he has to Skip to the right as the play unfolds to pick up the next runner. Singleton's responsibility there once he isn't an option is to get on the inside of Levi and not Hinder his attempt to get across. Singleton is on Levi's outside shoulder and blocks him
Comparisons to the Bibby one are way off
Whoever the Dummy runner is for Hudds comes on the inside of Bibby and Bibby rather than skip on (Which he could have he chose to as there was no one physically there to stop him) decides to initiate contact with the Hudds player on Bibby's inside shoulder.
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| Quote ="Jukesays"We'll have to agree to disagree
When Singleton goes through he makes no attempt to get inside of Levi (And there is a big gap on Levi's inside to Chris Hill).
Levi could hardly go any further to his right as he was already only a yard away from his outside defender (He has to hold is defensive line until Singleton isn't an option).
It's Singleton's responsibility to avoid that contact, Levi doesn't go out of his way to take Singleton or choose to take him.
You say "He literally jumps to impact with Singleton before he ever gets to the swan dive He could have easily avoided the collision in which case Singleton would have gone through the line and that would have been no penalty, a fact Jiffy picks up in commentary" - But he couldn't avoid the contact as he has to Skip to the right as the play unfolds to pick up the next runner. Singleton's responsibility there once he isn't an option is to get on the inside of Levi and not Hinder his attempt to get across. Singleton is on Levi's outside shoulder and blocks him
Comparisons to the Bibby one are way off
Whoever the Dummy runner is for Hudds comes on the inside of Bibby and Bibby rather than skip on (Which he could have he chose to as there was no one physically there to stop him) decides to initiate contact with the Hudds player on Bibby's inside shoulder.'"
Never disputed the Bibby one. We'll have to (partly) agree to disagree on the other. It's definitely a penalty as I said in the post but it was about as milked as it gets.
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