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| Quote ="Sharpy_4a"I guess thats a good point, i never really thought of type 1, type 2 fibers being invloved in aerobic fitness.
I guess thats why they say cant make a sprinter, that you are born one!'"
Exactly you can have the best training in the world but if you lack the genetic gifts you are only going to get as fast as your limitations allow regardless of how hard or well you train.
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| Quote ="jonh"Sorry Brett you are wrong, you can never exactly simulate the demands of a game, you will get close and we get closer every year as research progresses but you will never nail it, it is what makes training training and playing playing.'"
in that case then , one day we will get to the stage where you can get match fit in a gym.
all it takes is a few simulators to hit the body as if its being tackled, and other similar machines.
they said we would never make a nuclear weapon at one time as well.
as science progresses, so does progress.........or summat.
only thing i can think of against my own theory is that as we progress, the game will progress (as its been doing) and players will get fitter and need to be more match fit to cope, thereby always keeping one step in front of scientific advances.
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| Quote ="jonh"Sorry Brett you are wrong, you can never exactly simulate the demands of a game, you will get close and we get closer every year as research progresses but you will never nail it, it is what makes training training and playing playing.'"
Your body doesn't know you are playing RL.
If you simulate everything then you will become "match fit".
However, as I have said, given it's much easier to get 95% there and finish the last 5% off by actually playing the game, why would you?
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| Quote how does match fitness for boxing and rugby compare to match fitness for other sports?
football? cricket ? snooker ? darts '"
It doesnt carry over very well from sport to sport, when lance armstrong completed the new york marathon, he said it was the hardest thing he had ever done!
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| Quote ="wigan pie man"how does match fitness for boxing and rugby compare to match fitness for other sports?
football? cricket ? snooker ? darts
'"
Not really sports are they. More a pastime along with dominos and fishing.
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| Quote ="jonh"Fit is a very general word and usually when talking about sports you have to reffer to sports specific fitness.
If we take a season from the day after the game of the final match of the previous season the training progresses in a periodized way, ie specific phases of training related to the specific times of year.
Straight after the final game of the previous season the players should be allowed a period of active recovery, ie rest with a few active sessions thrown in ie a few games of basket ball or other sporting events that maintain, but refresh the body, nothing intense at all. You will then enter after this phase the phase commonly know as preseason, this is where the foundations are laid for the sports specific fitness ie this is where the players in general term get "fit". It is where they work on the aerobic fitness and size in the gym, as the weeks pass the phases become more specific to the sport. Rugby League is an anaerobic intermittent power endurance sport with periods of active recovery. In simple terms rugby league is a sport requiring high intensity power bursts for short periods ie when the ball is taken up or when you are performing a tackle, the most part is spent activley recovering ie moving forward or back in the defensive line but this active recovery can also be a transition phase, ie supporting a run low intensity but then getting the offload and taking the ball forward it suddenly becomes high intensity. Players have to be conditioned to deal with the specific fitness demands of the sport.
As the preseason continues training becomes more and more specific, building on the general foundations adding strenght and converting this to power, at the end of the preseason the team should be being conditioned with high intensity power training with a view to maitaining this throughout the season twinging it to peak at times dictated by the coach throughout the season. All drills should challenge the systems used in a game the closer to the start of the playing season you get, while you can attempt to replicate and manipulate drills to be sports specific, in simple terms the most sport specific training is to play the game which is where the term match fit comes in, as you can never copy the exact demands of the sport in a training environment.
Building intensity and specificity is the key, the above is a very basic model and there are several more relevant models than this but it is the simplest to explain the difference between being fit and being sports specific or match fit.
Prior to anyone saying anything yes i will change my sig to officially the most boaring poster on here.
'"
You ever kisssed a Girl son?
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| Quote ="Pemps"Not really sports are they. More a pastime along with dominos and fishing.'"
they both come on sky SPORTS......along with fishing, but not dominoes.
i do agree somewhat Pemps....there are some borderline sports imo...the above, curling, golf, speed walking, normal walking .......question is..where do you draw the line between sport and pastime?
buts thats maybe for another thread (close season?).
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| Quote ="jonh"Exactly you can have the best training in the world but if you lack the genetic gifts you are only going to get as fast as your limitations allow regardless of how hard or well you train.'"
left you a PM jonh.
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| Quote ="Jukesays"You ever kisssed a Girl son?
'"
Are you trying to say that there's another activity other than RL that involves a low intensity build up followed by periods of intermittent endurance and recovery, rapidly developing into high intensity sessions until the participant peaks just when it matters?
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| Quote ="XBrettKennyX"Your body doesn't know you are playing RL.
If you simulate everything then you will become "match fit".
However, as I have said, given it's much easier to get 95% there and finish the last 5% off by actually playing the game, why would you?'"
If you simulate everything you will be playing the sport.
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| I played about 20 mins for the Riversiders a week last Sunday and my ribs are still knacking me.
I am definitely not match fit (but will get there I should add!) whereas the rest of them were playing in the heat at Irlam a week later with absolutely mortal hangovers! Fair play fellas That's a good example for me!
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| Quote ="wigan pie man"in that case then , one day we will get to the stage where you can get match fit in a gym.
all it takes is a few simulators to hit the body as if its being tackled, and other similar machines.
they said we would never make a nuclear weapon at one time as well.
as science progresses, so does progress.........or summat.
only thing i can think of against my own theory is that as we progress, the game will progress (as its been doing) and players will get fitter and need to be more match fit to cope, thereby always keeping one step in front of scientific advances.'"
The problem is that firstly you have to combine so many different disciplines to make it virtually impossible, and to compound that as training conditioning improves and style of game changes demads on the body change, so basically you are forever playing catch up. There is no set finish line it is a line that is always moving forward as training moves forwards.
If anyone is interested in reading further on this I would suggest reading anything by Vern Gambetta.
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| Quote ="Rilo"I played about 20 mins for the Riversiders a week last Sunday and my ribs are still knacking me.
I am definitely not match fit (but will get there I should add!) whereas the rest of them were playing in the heat at Irlam a week later with absolutely mortal hangovers! Fair play fellas
That's a good example for me!'"
Erm, for future reference when you refer to the riversiders could you call them "The RugbyLeagueLegends.com Riversiders"?
Thanks
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| Quote ="Pemps"Erm, for future reference when you refer to the riversiders could you call them "The RugbyLeagueLegends.com Riversiders"?
Thanks
'"
My bad, duly noted!
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| in that case then , one day we will get to the stage where you can get match fit in a gym.
all it takes is a few simulators to hit the body as if its being tackled, and other similar machines.
they said we would never make a nuclear weapon at one time as well.
as science progresses, so does progress.........or summat.
only thing i can think of against my own theory is that as we progress, the game will progress (as its been doing) and players will get fitter and need to be more match fit to cope, thereby always keeping one step in front of scientific advances.'"
Whilst i agree that training methods have improved and will continue, for example 20 years ago most teams weight training would have been based on bodybuilder type workouts, where as now they do more sport specific stuff and olympic lifts. I would be amazed if anyone used exercises like curls! I dont think you will ever be able to train for 100% match fitness. Training is more linear than a game.
In all sports, athletes are always knackered when they finish the race due to the extra effort they put in, and you cannot train for that. That extra effort is down to mental strength and nothing else. The Will to push yourself further than you do normally.
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| Quote ="XBrettKennyX"You can get 100% match fit in the gym.
Now it may well be harder than playing the game, however it is possible.'"
Not possible at all. I'm a lecturer in Sport in Manchester and have never known any athlete to get match fit at the start of the year in the gym alone.
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| Quote ="jonh"The problem is that firstly you have to combine so many different disciplines to make it virtually impossible, and to compound that as training conditioning improves and style of game changes demads on the body change, so basically you are forever playing catch up. There is no set finish line it is a line that is always moving forward as training moves forwards.
If anyone is interested in reading further on this I would suggest reading anything by Vern Gambetta.'"
no offence mate, but i'd rather be kissing girls
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| Quote I would suggest reading anything by Vern Gambetta.'"
Mel Sif is quite good however maybe a little dated now.
Charles Staley also has some good info out there but has gone a little mainstream now!
Jonh,
what are your thoughts on the Crossfit methodology, getting quite a lot of press at the moment?
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| Quote ="Sharpy_4a"Mel Sif is quite good however maybe a little dated now.
Charles Staley also has some good info out there but has gone a little mainstream now!
Jonh,
what are your thoughts on the Crossfit methodology, getting quite a lot of press at the moment?'"
Crossfit is simply another way of rebranding an old basic model of periodization IMHO.
Supertraining by Mel Siff is a fantastic book and should be the cornerstone of anyone wanting to take research in this area seriously, although it certainly should not be the first book you read as it is very hard going.
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| I'm surprised you gym monkeys can read.
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| Quote I'm surprised you gym monkeys can read. '"
We cant supertraining is only ten pages thick!
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| Quote ="Sharpy_4a"We cant supertraining is only ten pages thick!
'"
I wish, i had to work on my strength in the gym just to carry that bugger about with me.
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| Quote I wish, i had to work on my strength in the gym just to carry that bugger about with me.'"
Thats where brains over brawn comes in, I got mine on a pdf!
However i think i would have put my back out if id had to carry the book around all day!
Not just a pretty face you know!
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| Quote ="Sharpy_4a"Thats where brains over brawn comes in, I got mine on a pdf!
However i think i would have put my back out if id had to carry the book around all day!
Not just a pretty face you know!'"
Cogratulations you have just taken geekdome to a whole new level!
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| Quote Cogratulations you have just taken geekdome to a whole new level! '"
Yeah but amongst all the different types of geeks, sports geeks are still the ones who all the other geeks want to be like!
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