I don't think we'll win anything under Lam. Our big game management is non existant. It was poor under Wane at times, but under Lam it's even worse.

I genuinely believe that he’s way out of his depth

If he doesn’t know what the problems then he should move aside and let someone else take over the role

I’m tired of his “it’s not us” routine. The defeat on Saturday is us as we’ve seen several times over

His lack of graciousness in defeat also grates.
He should have thanked Hull for the lesson on Saturday and wished them well in the SF. Instead he mumbled he didn’t know what happened which if doesn’t know by now then he never will.

His lack of tactical awareness is alarming

Thanks for stepping in on the Edwards debacle but you’re not the guy for the longer term

I’m not sure what Lam’s role is within the club

Peet sorts out the defence and Winder the attack.
What does Lam actually add?
We have nothing that other teams can’t replicate. Maybe not as good as us say defensively but it can be replicated. Hard work is a gimme it isn’t unique nor does it guarantee success

I wouldn't sack Lam at this stage, but I wouldn't be renewing his contract either. Get a replacement sorted to take over in 2022. Saints are the best team right now, but we aren't even getting as far as being knocked out by them generally. Week-to-week we're probably the 2nd best team in the league, but once it comes to big knockout games we aren't even 2nd. Five different teams have knocked us out of the Cup/League under Lam. Other teams raise their game in those fixtures and we choke.

Did you actually though? I'd say the sides were pretty well matched on paper.

No it wasn’t it was spent on GB

Financially the sack now is I suspect a non starter.
I’d sideline him and make Peet or Winder Joint Head Coach.

Any team is capable of beating us with Lam in charge. Leyth were 18 points up and coasting, York with a severely weakened team gave us problems.
Every game will tight and just on the law of averages and chance we will lose some tight games. I don’t think we will finish in the top 2 and 4th or 5th wouldn’t surprise me.

Not sure what Lam can do personally to move things in the right direction.
He needs advice from someone but not sure if he’s the type to go out and search for it

Shaun Wane is the only British coach I would be happy with. Its either that or another Australian assistant. Andrew Henderson is rated quite highly and you will always find NRL assistants keen to do what is essentially an apprenticeship in SL.

Nah we get it done in the weekly rounds. Leigh weren't coasting against us at all we just had a poor start in that game then turned it round after about half an hour. I've no idea when York gave us problems, we just ground them down for 60 minutes then pulled away like we do with everyone because we are the fitter team. I'd expect us to be top 2 under Lam, but that's no good if you can't go on to win in the play offs/final. I'm as upset with the loss as anyone but let's not overstate how bad we are.

Making the decision now to recruit a replacement for 2022 should hopefully allow time to find the right candidate rather than being pressured into hiring whoever happens to be available. Giving Peet or Winder the reins with Lam in the background sounds like a recipe for disaster. Either they listen to him and we have the same problems as what we have now, or they ignore him and he doesn't add anything. Nothing stopping them applying for the job in 2022 of course.

A Joint Head Coach could perhaps help avoid a constructive dismissal if we can’t afford to get shut in 2021
By the way I don’t think there is any chance of any change in 2021 and realistically like you suggest changes won’t occur until next season. I just don’t rate the guy and would like him offloaded sooner rather than later.

“We ground York down for 60 minutes “ sort of sums us up for me.
I don’t think we are a bad team I just think that a better coach would get more out of the team even with it’s deficiencies
A agree 100% that fitness has won us matches and no doubt will do so in the future I’m just not as certain that it will suffice enough for us to grab a second place in the league

I expect the board is gutted they missed out on Radford....

The risk if we leave it too long is that the coaches we’d want will all be tied down for 2022 and clubs won’t really want to release them without enough time to source a replacement. We’re then left with slim pickings and second rate coaches, the type that would be second rate to Lam.

I bear no grudge against Lam and wish him very well but it’s a thanks but no thanks and I’d be amazed if IL/KR aren’t thinking the same.

On the other site there on about Wane again..

The kick behind Fonua was a worry of mine because you did it against Cas leading to a try and Fonua turns like a oil tanker. As for Powell he doesn't help your props whatsoever, offers zero running threat so the square markers can shoot off fast and get at the ball carrier, it's not like he even takes a step out to engage the square markers.

I like winning trophies and Wane will do that. The rugby is worse now than it was under Waney, so that excuse from Lenagan hasn’t worked out. If Wigan want to play an ultra attacking brand of rugby, they’re going to need some big forwards who are difficult to pull down and who will offload the ball. If we don’t invest in them then Wane is exactly the man we’ll need to work with the forwards we have.

We also don't know what impact 3 years of what has essentially been CPD will have done for Wane.

Whether its at Wigan or not he needs to be working on a full-time basis - he's too good not to be and its clear its driving him round the bend not being out on the training field every week. He'll put up with it in a World Cup year but after that I can't see Wane continuing as England coach unless he's allowed to do it alongside a club role.

I get what you’re saying and I find myself agreeing but I think that ship for Wane and Wigan has sailed. Whatever [ireally [/ihappened leading to him leaving can’t have repaired itself and I just don’t believe bringing Wane back is a good move. I feel we need a new direction and step away from the perceived ‘thugby’ style we play.

The style IL wants - and some fans for that matter - requires heavy investment and an overhaul of coaching from top to bottom. That was never in a million years going to happen under Lam and further to that was never going to happen with a pack that struggles to make yards and offload. It’s not a case of bringing in Justin Holbrook (for example) and it’s sorted. We need the players to match that style 1-17 and I’m not convinced we have that style. We attack and attack well sometimes but our games are generally won on our blood-to-water style defence. That’s our style, that’s how we ware teams down and go on to win through then shifting the ball attacking tired teams. If anything it probably makes us look better than we actually are.

That’s not what Wane will bring and we’ll have disgruntled “fans” all over again whinging they’re bored despite winning trophies expecting the Monie style Wigan to con rolling back. I’m not calling for it by any means but if you want that type coach who’s available you’d go to Brian McDermott who again has a proven track record but yet seems to be ridiculed relentlessly.

I’d be taking serious looks at Jason Demetriou or Craig Fitzgibbon personally. Both are extremely well rated and it’s purely a matter of time before they get a Head Coaches gig.

Fitzgibbon has already been given the Cronulla job.

Fitzgibbon has the Cronulla job from next season I think. Wigan need to decide what we want to be. If we’re after playing attacking rugby then you need the right personnel. There’s no point saying we want to bring fans back by wowing them with the brand of rugby but then keep signing grafters in the pack like Singleton or filling it with young grafters like Partington and Smithies.

Cas probably played the best rugby we’ve seen in superleague in 2017 and they did that on the basis of having big, offloading forwards like Moors, Millington and Sene Lefao. I think a lot of Lams talk of playing attacking rugby is hot air anyway because even somebody like Bateman is playing one up, risk free rugby most of the time, so it doesn’t ring true that he wants us to entertain but even if he did want to, we don’t have the right forwards for it.

We have two options for me and that’s 1-we want to change the brand of rugby so we need to change the style of player we’re signing or bring through and we’ll need a squad overhaul (mainly in the forwards) or 2-we back the style of player we currently have, currently sign and currently bring through, so we need a coach that suits that and there’s nobody better than Wane. He’d be great for lads like Partington and Smithies. If any relationships between him and Lenagan are beyond repair I don’t know but if they’re not, it’s an easy decision for me.

So he has, my bad I’d forgotten!

I agree with that. Ideally we’d have a complete overhaul. If you look at the players leaving and [ipotential [/iplayer(s) coming in we have half a chance. GW plus 2 big, offloading props in the mould of Moors/Millington would go a hell of a way to changing the way we are set up to play. It would also exponentially improve the squad. That’s a relatively cheap way of doing it, these props rarely cost the world, much underpaid for what they do IMO - but I am a former prop forward so I would say that!!

I’m not against Wane coming back, but I’m not for it either. I just firmly believe we need a total new direction and a coach who had no ties to Wigan in any what way like Lam or Wane do.

Either way, Wane or not, the next coaching appointment is absolutely critical IMO and will mean the difference between Wigan going like Leeds under Furner or Wigan going like Saints under Holbrook.

Demetriou's record as a coach is incredible but it has already been noticed. He has got the gig as head coach at South's from next season. There isn't really a lot of top level coaches out of a job or looking for a new one.

The fact Adrian Lam sides play better rugby than Shaun Wanes sides is a myth.

In which case it's not a fact.

So the myth that Lam's team play more attacking rugby is a fact?

It wasn't me making that claim. I was disputing the logic.