That's true but are your players aged 30+ going to get better or decline?

No - you said:

Look at FTVs comments pre season on squad depth and compare it to what has actually materialised this season. He's a great poster and adds to this board but I remember comments along the lines of we're just replacing average players with other average players,

My comments pre-season on squad Seth were explicitly not that you were replacing average with average. It was you needed a couple of props and will be better for replacing your poorer existing props with them. It’s literally the opposite of what I said but you’re just using one quote from me on a different subject out of context as if it’s the only thing I’ve ever said.

But whatever.

Wasn't just the kick. It was the whole set. Don't understand the quick PTBs. Take your time getting to your feet, and compose yourself. The kick then needs to go to touch and we take time getting the line set. Was just dumb from start to finish.

Its great that Wigan and Sts are back to contesting close exciting games. This is great for The derby and good the image of RL.

Wigan and Sts will probably play each other five times this year and only two will really matter in terms of trophies won and lost. Wigan won the first and it will be fascinating to see who wins the GF. On balance, Sts still have the edge overall especially when Walmsley, Percival and Makinson are back. Wigan are still improving but can they improve enough to win the GF this year? I hope I am wrong but I still think they will fall just a little short.

No they weren't. I posted your own words above!!! What are you struggling with there? You've also reiterated above that we'd miss players less because we're replacing lesser players with similar. WTF is wrong with you today?

I keep hearing this "when Walmsley, Makinson and Percival are back". How do you know they are going to be available for the playoffs or Grand Final? How do you know they won't be replaced by injuries to equally important players like Welsby, Passi or Lomax? Finally, what are next week's lottery numbers, I could do with a few million...

You did in the semi-final and it didn't pan out like that?

I don't think Sironen was feigning injury. The problem we have is that the officials have never played the game and therefore decisions are being made by people who do not understand it. There is a massive difference between the Napa challenge and Singleton's. If you are committed to a tackle and the opposing player then falls or twists there is no time to pull out of the tackle or change your technique. All of us who have played have received challenges like that and the game has just continued.

You are right that these three may not all be back, and there will probably be further injuries and suspensions for both teams. I am just making the point that Sts have tremendous go forward and those three are a big part of that. Yesterday showed that Sts still have plenty go forward even without them.

Well we didn’t to be fair. It was a week after Lomax’s injury and he really struggled. He’s got better week on week since then.

We also had Davies at 6 who isn’t a stand off at all. Welsby was at 1 due to Hopoate being injured and we had that horrendous situation of Lomax attacking at 6 but defending as a FB which just didn’t work.

I stand by what I say, if both teams are at full strength I don’t see you beating us. If you do I’ll hold my hands up.

We’ve a way to go yet to get consistently up to their best but you’re right. We were miles off last season and we’re still a bit short but that gaps closed. We’ve had 3 games against them this season that have all been good games for the neutral, especially the last 2. We all sit on here and debate this player or that player, who was missing from either side, the decisions and so on but the game needs somebody to push Saints and challenge them for the good of the sport. Nobody had done it for the last 3 years consistently but Wigan, Catalans and Huddersfield are at least looking like they can worry them in a big game.

Sironen wasn't feigning injury you're right, and the game was set to continue because the ref played on. The red card happens because while Sironen is down the VR checks the tackle, and that's why you have people saying he milked it (he didn't) rather than the ref just getting it wrong.

I won't hold my breath. The wind will have blown in an unusual direction or something like that. I don't think you've deserved to lose a game in 4 years have you? - I jest.

FWIW - I don't think we beat you full 17 v full 17 but we get a hell of a lot closer than we have in the past few years whether Saints fans like to admit it or not.

"Lomax's bicep injury".

About as likely a truth as when Boris Johnson was in intensive care with Covid.

So it was fictitious? I must have imagined him walking off against Salford in agony holding it. It was a conspiracy theory and he wasn’t injured at all. I’ve heard it all now

Of course you do. The gap has closed significantly. I said so on here last night. However if we play you 10 times I think we win more games than you do.

That could change next season admittedly.

One more season ender in the spine for saints could well be advantage Catalans/Wigan. We lose one of Hopoate/Lomax/Welsby for the run in and I think any advantage is wiped out and we’ll struggle badly in close games.

Thought those three were good yesterday goven they haven’t really played together as a three and should only get better. Welsby was excellent but some of Hopoate’s touches at key times were top class.

Exactly. Singleton was committed to the tackle he was expecting to make. Sironen started to fall after Field got his legs, giving BS a fraction of a second to react. If people think he can change his body position in that moment to avoid contact with the head they are deluded.

If that's the rule though then maybe we should coach our players to start falling as they approach defenders knowing that any defender making contact with their head will be leaving the field. One we've whittled the opposition down by a few players French and Field can rip them to pieces.

Not presuming anything just my opinion that we could win the double you surely cannot disagree with that as you have no chance this year to get the double in.

KPP,Havard,Byrne,Smith a year older etc -for next year our younger players are the same as yours a year older.

Did Makinson/Walmsley/Percival play in the semi,am sure I saw Makinson and Percival busting a gut trying to catch Marshall.
When it came to the biggest game so far you bottled it just admit it Wigan won that game because we were better that day and Stains better yesterday.

It's funny how you say on one post that people are reading what they want....

You do realise that both teams make yards right?

Your pack, if you had those missing players would have made EVEN more yards. No one is denying that.

What I'm saying is that, if we had our big yardage guys, it wouldn't have been as easy for your defence as what it was.

I don't see what's so difficult to understand about that point?

French shushing Welsby and then losing the game was just so beautiful.

He really needs to let 2020 go

I think it was in retaliation when Welsby got up and looked at French who was still on the floor and chucked the ball at his head.

Why do you disappear when you lose is it because you are a idiot and love to have a go when you win but when you lose you sulk like a little baby whilst sucking on your mothers teat crying its not fair.

He didn’t chuck the ball at his head, he placed the ball on it. However that’s a side I don’t like about Welsby and I’m hoping he reins it in. He’s had a couple of sin bins for petulant actions this season already. Powell took exception to it and I can see why.

I’ve no issues with French giving it to him back and he very nearly had the last laugh.

Bruises can be a bit sore you know.