Why was it a red? Serious question.

I do feel for you, because we can debate all day about the way the rules are going and on that I’m 100% in agreement with you that the game is becoming lame and that having multiple cards per game is properly killing the game as an entertainment spectacle and it’s always deflating when a card just changes the momentum of a game and it seems like it’s happening in at least one game every single week so on the wider discussion, I’m with you.

However, they ARE the rules and the ref applied them correctly so to say he was horrendous is just false. I thought he had a decent game overall. He missed a few things of course but I’ve never seen a ref have a perfect game in my life

He was leading with the elbow and attacked the head. I understand the point about mitigation hitting the chest first and on that basis I have no issue with it not being a red, but I thought it was because leading with the elbow has always been illegal on its own even if you take out the head contact.

That said I always hate people crying for red cards, idk why people are so eager to have their opponents at a disadvantage but you see it every week. People are seriously suggesting Dodd should have had a RED for tripping field. Bizarre

I found it ironic that it was Lees who Dupree did that to. If they crack down on leading with the none ball carrying arm, Lees will need a season ticket in the main stand. I’ve been banging on about Lees doing that for the last few seasons.

Leading with the elbow could have broke Matty Lees,jaw

If his jaw was attached to his chest then I would agree.

Had he caught him on it then yes. I had no issue with the yellow and I wouldn’t have been surprised if it was a red because players shouldn’t be doing it, regardless of where the contact is. Matty Lees is by far the worst player in the league for doing it however, so I’ll await with interest how the refs handle it the next time he does it (which will be in the next game) and how Saints fans react to it.

Every player leads with the forearm/elbow. The referees will have to give a penalty every time a forward drives the ball in! It was nowhere near his jaw, he had more chance of getting whiplash.

Language is interesting, don't you think? It's "putting the bumpers up" when Lees does it and "Leading with the elbow" when it's Dupree.

Nick Fozzard, anyone?

I want to see 13 against 13. As for the indiscretion of Dodd, a trip was automatically a red card in the past it has now been downgraded to a yellow. Serious question, should players be allowed to lead with the forearm full stop?

If we’d of finished with 13 I think we would have won that game. The ref was shocking and I’ll see it with cherry and white glasses but we got penalised for a lot of things that saints were doing mainly around the ruck. The cards I have no issue with; Dupree lead with the arm hit the guys chest and it came up to his face. Byrne was a stupid one and although people say Percival slightly dipped it was no were near enough for Byrne to have mitigation. I can understand fatigue sets in but Jesus Christ player need to start dipping for tackle's.French did drop the ball for his try, begs the question if that camera filmed it clearly, why does the video ref cam look so poor. Do they enhance the picture after it’s filmed or something. I still stick by that even though I hate loosing on GF I can live with that one as I know this team (based on some of last years performances) could have won that. Saints looked shattered at times in that game and I’m not 100% sure that they had anymore in them to raise their performance, a saints fan would probably have to correct me on this. We really need to focus on our discipline because it will cost us games. I think we’ll be without Dupree and Byrne next week maybe Thompson.

I think they should be allowed to lead with the forearm as long as it’s not to the face/head. It’s obviously natural going into a collision that you’re going to put your arm out both for momentum and a bit of protection. Theres a fine line though between getting someone with the forearm and getting someone with the elbow so you’d have to get it right. Dupree in this instance clearly went with the elbow instead of the forearm

Why Thompson?

Interesting observation, I think we are a very fit team that puts in a tonne of effort. In big games I’d say we always look knackered towards the end, but it’s the kind of knackered where they’re still running their blood to water despite it. There’s been many games where I thought we were out on our feet but still managed to not concede. That said, the Catalan semi last year immediately comes to mind as a time when fatigue clearly played a huge part in costing us the game. Lees giving away a daft penalty and then the lazy tackle attempts on Tomkins. I suppose when you play such a high energy game, that kind of thing is bound to happen sometimes. It’s why we really need to improve on our attack so we can put some points on the board with our earlier dominance

He came back on after the HIA but I’d like to think if we can spare him next week we should. Lads been great and 5 games we’ve played he’s had two head knocks. Give him a rest if possible

Two run in with Leeds and a game against Wigan probs reading probs caught up. It’s still 5 games in and how we built in to last season I’m sure you still have growth. As a Wigan fan it feels a lot better than coming away from the games under Wolfe and Holbrook were we were hanging on for our lives and couldn’t cope with saints (at times your team looked superhuman) now it looks like it’s balanced and on paper I do think we should have won, games not played on paper obviously. You talking about the HIA tackle on Thompson? I don’t remember seeing any other tackle on Thompson, I’ve seen the HIA one and it looks like a clash of heads he’d be unlucky to get a ban for that. I’ve calmed down a bit from yesterday, Good luck for the season im sure you’ll sort the attack out.

So if the forearm hits the face/head then it should be a red? I don’t think that is the way the rules are being applied.

No it’s not, I thought you were just asking me what my opinion was on whether leading with the forearm should be allowed or not. I wouldn’t say if a forearm hits the face it should be an auto red either, you can use common sense and take into account force and point of initial impact etc. If it’s direct to the head with a lot of force then ofc it should be a red. It’s just my opinion that leading with the forearm shouldn’t really be a problem as long as it’s not high as I think it’s a fairly natural thing to do when going into a collision

Again, I’m ok with Dupree getting a yellow, I just thought it would be a red based on my interpretation of the rules as they are. He hit the chest first so I’m fine with it not being a red. He did get him in the face with his elbow with a good amount of force though! I’d be surprised if he doesn’t pick up a ban, tho I’d honestly rather he didn’t as I’d rather the MRP be ed off other than grading the severity of red cards/things the ref has put on report or serious foul play that was clearly missed. Cant stand players getting bans for minor .

Reading some of the stuff on here I must have watched a different game on Friday.

What I saw was a Saints team that made 4 breaks compared to Wigan making 0.

What I saw was an admittedly very hard working Thompson make poor post contact metres and dominated in a few collisions. Compare that to Walmsley who scattered defenders for fun and Knowles who was the best player on the pitch. Thompson must earn more on his own than those two put together.

Lees was MOM and we had Matautia playing prop, second row and centre at different times and not looking out of place in any position. Who else can do that??

I love this narrative too that there’s loads of improvement left in Wigan but not Saints. Wardle was going to humiliate Hurrell apparently. What I saw was one running over the top of the other for his try.

Yes the dry tracks will help Wigan but when the wet weather comes again in October then we have the superior pack and the game plan to suit. Let’s not forget that despite the Walters, Cooper and Havard excuses, we have Bell and Passi to come back into that pack. Bell is probably the player of the season in the forwards.

Are we also ignoring we lost Percival and Batchelor for the last 20-25 mins too??

Wigan defended outstandingly well and showed they are a Champion team. Our attack is still off but in mitigation we have had a different 2-5 all season with Makinson, Hurrell and Percival all missing games and Blake finding his feet. Compare that to Wigan having a settled 2-5 all season.

Of course the red card was a factor but there’s nothing to say how the game would’ve finished without it. No one knows.

The fact remains that Wigan didn’t make a single break all game and there’s an argument to say that French lost control anyway so on another day they could’ve been nilled.

I’ve seen a few Wigan fans saying they would go unbeaten all season and Saints are finished. We are gone, no threat anymore.

Well there’s life in the old dog yet and I wouldn’t bet against us when we play you again.

The old narrative that Saints players do it for the love of the game

Walmsley and Knowles get paid in Tesco vouchers I believe.

Enjoy the win. It was two sides with commitment levels through the roof but one played pretty well with the ball and had better discipline (according to the ref anyway and that’s the man that counts) and the others execution was poor and discipline terrible. The second side got done in the last 7 minutes, with 12 men for the second time in the game and has far more reasons to think it’ll improve as the season goes on IMO. It still might not be enough because Saints are a great side but we’ll see how it plays out. It’s a long old season!

Amazing what 2 late tries can do to peoples recollections of the game. If we stay at 13 vs 13 we win the game. At the time Byrne was sent off we had taken control and Thompson was leading the way. Walmsley had the 30-40 yard run at the end but without that his stats wouldnt be much different to Thompsons.

Enjoy the win And lets hope we can draw each other in the semis of the cup and we can do it again on a firmer pitch

Why are you being stupid? I’m merely pointing out the salary that Thompson earns and the expectations that come with that. He’s miles away from the 2019 version and I wouldn’t swap him for a Knowles, Walmsley or a Matautia.

I thought Matautia was the best of the 3 Friday.

I genuinely don't get the love in for Knowles. According to the Superleague website he made 20 carries for 106 metres yet the apparently dominated Thompson made 101m from 16 carries.

I have never seen Knowles break a tackle.

Like I said in my previous post 2 late tries have made this into some performance with the ball it wasn't for Saints. At the time of the red card we had started to dominate after HT and if we had stayed 13 vs 13 we would have won the game

Lets hope we can draw each other in the cup and do it again

Dominated so much you didn’t make a single break? Ok mate

Oh and on Knowles he smashed in defence all game and showed some nice hands on more than one occasion.

Which shows how dominant we were at that time for ten mins were camped on your line winning the collisions and penning you back which is where the red card came from at the time. This is literally the definition of dominating a side



We weren't clinical with the execution and that relates to no clean breaks but from 40-60 we were dominating.

Knowles 36 tackles 107m best player on the pitch. Thompson 30 tackles 101m in less time on the pitch was dominated. Can you see the overreaction?