Its very easy to sit behind a computer screen and post this Charlie as if it's gospel and everyone should believe you.

Its quite conceivable that players dislike their coach and chairman (especially the latter - how many do you think like Maurice?) but you do continually post unsubstantiated "facts" about players' opinions and why should anyone believe you? Seriously?

So given I assume you witnessed that garbage served up today are you going to be happy if we have more performances like that yet come a gallant 3rd once again?

It is a bit if a moot point anyway because if we continue to play like that we won't even come close.

A lot of the blame for today lies with Noble and is stupid sections which as I predicted before the game would result in musical chairs the minute Riddell went off. It did and we ended up with Lockers at 6.

No ones fault other than Nobles that the team yet again looked like a bunch if individuals.

And its not just one game as you posted else where. As Jonh said its a continuation of how the team have played over the last two years.

Dave

Well you could take the view that putting him in, would see him get knocked down a peg or two. Very few senior SL players would have a problem doing that if he is that cocky. Could be the making/breaking of him as a player.



We still have Orrell etc, in what way does his penny pinching affect the players?

I have often wondered if a new assistant would revitalise Noble.

He is there to run the club, not be liked. If the club surviving and being run correctly means him not being liked then tough. Its quite often said a sports club is run like a company, well how many companies have had to make changes in the last 6 months. How many back room staff did Hull KR make, just to survive?

Believe me or not that is your choice. I post what I can without risking disclosing where it comes from. It comes from several sources.

By and large players liked Lindsay, less so in latter years.

However, you can validate what I say. Both you and Alex. You have 3 players you can check what I say with. It's not that difficult.

I say what I say here or in person. A shrinking violet I could never be compared to.

What worries me most about Noble is the fact that none of the players appear to be developing their skills base under him. I look at the Saints team and 1 - 17 look comfortable with ball in hand, we don't, in fact some of the forwards don't look like they can pass a ball.

I find it worrying that he thinks that 3 changes at half back are going to give us a structure that we can use to gain consistency of performance- the constant changing impacted on all facets of our play accross the whole side.

It also appears that we were back to substitutions by the clock again today and not based upon how to influence the game. If Feka is unable to do more then 15 minutes a half then once again the blame for this has to lie with Noble and his coaching/conditioning staff.

All I am saying is that its very easy to post that something is "fact" and from "several sources" to back up an argument / make people believe you know all the ins and outs.

Serious Question. Why didn't Noble /IL replace Barrett with another quality stand off? Surely this was the most sensible thing to do or give Sam Tomkins the job. He won't learn anything new playing in the reserves/academy.

Wigan now have too many players in the squad who naturally play in the same position and Noble doesn't know where to play them and who is the best player for each position.

Tim Smith and Leuluai are both Scrum half's (Leuluai is better at hooker IMHO!

Riddell, McIlorum and Leuluai all vying to play at Hooker

Players don't play well when they keep roating positions. I understand the benefits of having two hookers with one coming off the bench but this idea of rotating players between scrum half and hooker all the time is unsettling. Stability is what's needed and giving a lad who is a proper stand off more game time at stand off.

Come back Higham all is forgiven? The game was begging for a dummy half runner of Higham's style so at least putting TL there gave is something along those lines.

Pity the rest of the team had to be disrupted to do that.

Dave

That's what was madness. In order to interchange "hookers" we had a full reshuffle playing players out of position. Ridiculous.

Higham was garbage for 3 years. Why would he suddenly make a difference.

A couple of weeks ago I posted the recruitment in the off season looked event driven not planned by which I meant we tied up a quota spot and a chunk of wages on Roberts who came a year earlier than expected.

Not matter how good he is the fact we have him in the team this season is one reason why we could not get Bird. Phelps was also given a new deal and takes a quota spot up and wages.

Other positions needed addressing before either of these players got deal for 2009 IMO. Had Roberts then gone elsewhere and not been available for us in 2010 so what? Ainscough would have had to come through. And in any case our wingers tend to be pretty superfluous!

Dave

I really don't care about your opinion of him because it isn't worth reading.

The point I was making was in that game it was crying out for a player to run at them from dummy half. Riddell didn't so TL got moved there and the team was disrupted so we could have a bit of Higham type play.

Dave

Well I've got to say I tried to stay out of the debate 'proper' because I believe there were rights and wrongs on both sides. However after today's selection policies and other things came home to roost, I think Noble has been disappointing in this first game. Mathers should never pull the Cherry and White on again, Coley does not deserve his spot 'on merit' above Prescott, and the debacle surrounding half back and the non playing of Tompkins is nothing short of farcical. Can't think of anything positive to post other than TL should definitely be interchange hooker...as long as that means Tompkins gets game time either from the bench or starting...either will suit me fine!

Sorry but the only way I will ever say something in any part of my life is if I know it is correct and thus if I knew nothing I would not say anything. The difference between myself and many others is that I will stand in front of anybody/anywhere and speak up. It is not something I decided to do one day it is simply how I am and whatsmore so was my father before me. Ultimately, that is perceived by many to be a good quality particularly when combined with not betraying trust.

You and i are different types of people. Via your female friend I presume you can ascertain quite a lot of information. You could or Alex could IMO add quite a bit to the discussions that take place here. However, by doing so you put yourselves in the limelight. You make people aware of what you think. Neither of you are prepared to do that.

You cannot hide and neither can I. Numerous people know who I am etc.

Good Points Dave about recruitment.

You can't have cohesion in a team when players are shifted positions to accomodate substitutions. Any subsitution should be tactical, player replacing player without having to move other players on the pitch in order to accommodate as its too disruptive.

Seriously, do you actually love him?

I've never in my life read such biased one eyed blatant rubbish. Dave, get over yourself, every normal fan could see he offered us little in relation to kicking on, but yet you arrogantly swan in with your "i dont care" dismissive attitude of people on here. To think someone made you a moderator



Higham-esk type play doesnt win SL, nor does it help you win tight games, we have seen this first hand for 3 years.

I am not a Higham devotee. However, it is silly to describe him as garbage. He had strengths and he had weaknesess. He was virtually an every pesent and by and large IMO a very good player.

However, I fully acept the view that a hooker needs to be a playmaker in todys RL. Brad Drew was an excellent example of that today, Scott Moore was a good example v Huddersfield.

Yet, just as some would argue that a Dave O would say Higham could do no wrong then with some it seems Piggy can do no wrong either. An Australian I respect describes piggy as more of a personality than a player.

When Piggy arrived. He was very unfit, only managing 20 minutes of trainin. Staff have commented re his knee being a mess. Piggy did not want to play v Wire. Noble insisted he did. He did not play v Leigh either. He's played 2 gmes and we have seen very little IMO.

Is that down to Piggy or the coach. I am prepared to give Piggy the benefit of the doubt for now. If a hooker is going to playmake he needs a well planned structure re runners etc and plays. So far that has not ben evident. It was not with Higham either. You need to realise how detailed and well reheased Melbourne Storm are in order to make Cam Smith look as good as he is. So are the 2 hookers to blame or the coaches?

Charlie, you have your wires so far crossed you have no idea. Now you are inventing a "female friend" as a "source" of mine?

I'm a rugby fan, I come on here to chat with friends and debate rugby issues. You seem to love the idea of there being a big conspiracy of "sources" and you cannot resist suggesting I hide what I think?

You couldn't be further from the truth.

Try reading what you write yourself about Higham. It qualifies. He is not "garbage" and that is all there is too it.

Dave

In your own one of a kind arrogant opinion.

Higham is not garbage.

However, I will say this now, and I'm sure it will be used in evidence against me if I am wrong.


Riddell will be a better hooker for us than Higham.

So you and Holly are not good friends

Alex is not good friends with Neil or Andy or Sam

As friends and as rugby people of course you never gossip / discuss.

BK maybe now you may understand why I and others think Noble makes players look bad whereas other coches can make players look better than they are.

This post alone is ending any more conversations I have with you on this topic as I can see how you add 2 + 2 and get 100000000 from doing a bit of "researching".

Rugby talk only from my end I'm afraid Charles