Betts says in that video that there is no fee involved at all.

For those thinking if Wane goes Hock will return must be delusional. Hock will never play for Wigan again and not should he.

He has clearly done something that his bosses are not happy with and as good as he is no player is bigger than the club.

Thanks for the memories Gaz, but time for everyone to move on.

One thing that cannot be denied is the club and his these same bosses stood by and supported Hock, through the darkest days of his career. Doing something to anger his bosses to the level where he is deemed surplus to requirements shows he has a total lack of respect for what they did for him. He should have done everything the club asked him, clearly he has not, hence the situation we found ourselves in now.

Is there jam tomorrow in RL? If you build a good squad and win something it'll be decimated. However if you build a e squad, play badly and win things... Leeds

I think that Wane and everyone else at Wigan are well aware of IL's expectations for the club.

1- My main gripe with Wane is that he took a very successful side and changed the funder-mental principle of what made us so successful - Our mean, rough and tough defence. It's ok being your own man with your own ideas on how the game should be run but you've also gotta realise the basic time old principle of Attack wins games were defence wins championships. It's the basis and mantra of the Melbourne Storm and unsurprisingly Wigan under Maguire. I'm sure some clever d!ck will show some stats to say we conceded x-amounts of points last year compared to our time under Madge.

2-His harsh training methods. It seems some on here have very short memories in regards to the amount of players we lost because of training ground injuries last year. It screams of being stuck in the dark days of RL and old school coaching methods of full contact training all the time. I'm some fools on here love that. They still believe that RL players have it easy compared to a proper working day etc.

3-His big I am attitude in the media - How many seriously embarrassing comments did he make last season? How many times did he have to reiterate that he's his own man or confirm to the press what he's done or how he's changed things. It's on par with Noble sayings like throwing the baby out with the bath water. If your going to act like a Mourinho then expect people to bring you bang to rights when you fall flat.

4-His over-reliance on Wigan youngsters. We all like to see kids brought through but the ranks but Wane is blinkered with his loyalty towards them. First example is the Widnes away game. He loads the side with kids and then when we unsurprisingly lose he still thinks he's done no wrong and that the young lads had someone let HIM DOWN when it's actually the other way around. 2nd example of Murphy playing in the most important game of the season vs Leeds. Stupid and arrogant decision on Wane's part to stick a kid in the firing line against what are the most successful side of the last 5 years. Did he really not envisage that an astute RL player like Sinfield wouldn't have peppered him?

Now don't get me wrong here every coach has faults. Madge certainly had them but at the end of the day he also got results with a talented side. Heck even McDermott at Leeds has countless faults but has still managed to make sure his team of champions are ready in October. Wane had a quality side at his disposal but didn't win anything worth bragging about.

Do others not see the above? Or is it that he's from the WN post code which means he escapes criticism as Wigan is the most secular place on earth.

At the end of the day he has to trust his players. Jack Murphy playing in the playoff can't be used as a stick to beat Wane with. He is the reserves full back and the first team full back was injured. If he didn't think he was good enough to play there would be no point Murphy being at Wigan.

What poop squad is that that you talk about?

It's certainly coming to the end of it's run but;

Webb, Peacock, Buderus, JJB, Sinfield, Burrow, Maguire, Ellis, Senior, Hall, Watkins, Leuleui, Donald etc

All have played huge parts in the continued success seen at Leeds. Some have left, some have got old and retired whilst some have struggled. Such is time but it certainly doesn't detract from their collective achievements.

Don't blame the team blame the system that allows it.

Hock also seems to be bitter that we didnt let him go to Leeds, Saints or Warrington.

You may well be right but the point I was making was I don't think IL has joined Wane on the Road to Damascus which is what you post read like to me. He's just letting Wane get on with it, giving him what he asks for (within reason I suppose!) and will judge him on the results.

Just because a player isn't ready to play in the biggest games today doesn't mean he's not ever going to be ready.

Murphy might be really highly rated by all at the club BUT the magnitude of the game, the opposition that day and also his lack of game time was a recipe for disaster for everyone. A risk that didn't have to be taken

There were other more sensible and secure options out there for Wane to pick from i.e. Richards to FB - Thornley or Gelling to the Wing.

Also by your reasoning then Williams or Hampshire should have played when Tommy was injured shouldn't they? Instead we move half our team round to play Lockers @ 6 as he wouldn't risk a youngster in none event games?

It doesn't weigh up.

Some great, some not so great... I won't go into details, but the point is only Burrow and Hall are in their prime and they still won the grand final. But come the big occasion they've 13 world beaters. Somehow.

1 - Our defence looked shaky at times but it also looked solid at times. That happens in a season.

2 - Agree on this one. Something was clearly wrong last year with the number of setbacks players suffered.

3 - Said on here many times he needs to be quiet but hardly reasons to sack him.

4 - Is that the same group of kids that had the game won TWICE. Our first team did this a number of times under Maguire and also under Wane. The one criticism you could give from that game would be his substitutions. He had an inexperienced front 3 on the pitch at the same time as opposed to a mixed one.
Jack Murphy didn't cost us the game against Leeds nor did the team selection. Experienced players failing to kill the game when ahead cost us. We constantly tried to find the killer ball when 12-11 up and forced the play. We didn't need to do this and should have taken a leaf out of Sinfield's book and played the percentages. Had Finch put the ball in touch and not tried a fancy ass flick fir example then the Murphy incident wouldn't have happened. I also don't think Sam or even Paddy would have caught the kick because of the way it moved.

SW made mistakes last year but none that require his sacking. We blew two semi finals but you could argue were robbed in two withthe McGuire knock on and Peacock incident in the cup and the Goulding penalty in the playoffs. It's how SW learns from his mistakes that will define this season. If he flogs us all year we'll fade away again. If our top 22 players all get good game time and stay fresh as possible we'll be in with a shout come playoff time.

That's the system and not the players.

You give an old warrior with some left in his tank the motivation to win the league over 6 games then they will ultimately take it. Not many follow the NFL book look at Ray Lewis at the moment and the effect his pending retirement is having on the Ravens.

Running rings around someone who is hurting with little motivation in June is easy. It's a lot more tougher when they are focused on the title come Sept/October.

Btw i'd love to know which of those players aren't that great?

No Sam Powell and he did play against Hull but then got injured. Hampshire and Williams were in the U18s not the 20s and when Tommy was away weren't they in Australia touring????

Haha I'd love to say but my views are my own and would be readily dismissed as bias or stupidity. I will say that Hall, Peacock and Senior are my favourites from that bunch. You're bang on otherwise, for me the biggest shame about last season is that neither Tommy not Brett were themselves in the later stages. When they could have won the league in three games.

Thanks BK. There are 20 pages on this thread and lots of silly comments. This is one of the few that actually raises the key questions of how this is going to affect the team.

None of us know exactly what went on. What we can say is that to lose a player of Hock's ability, whatever the issues may have been, is a sad day for the club and Gareth.

We look to be in the weakest shape for a few years as we go into the new season. Having said that, standards in SL are slipping and we don't need to be great to do well this year. The competiton looks mediocre, so perhaps it's not that worrying after all!

No idea on the cap space issue. Common sense would suggest Wigan should only be assessed to the extent that they are still paying part of Hock's wages and that the part paid by Widnes should count towards Widnes players' wages for cap purposes, but this is RL and the joke that is the salary cap, so common sense will have very little to do with it.

If people actually knew the truth about the REAL reasons he has gone on loan, I tell you now that Gaz wouldnt be in for all this stick. He still wants to play for Wigan but not under the current coach for personal reasons. Widnes on loan was the first club he chosen due to close friends being there also, better money than hes on at Wigan makes it win/win for all parties but he will be back when Wane is sacked/leaves.

Bull

And what are these real reasons or isn't it your place to say?

So IL can give an official statement on what a prick Hock had been but you can't post on a forum?

Personal reasons or not, Gareth Hock has no remit to tell Wigan who they can or can't employ as head-coach. No individual is more important than the club. His failure to understand that is reason enough to show him the door ... never mind everything else.

pm

Quote ="Johnny Headline"Wigan have known since late December he wouldnt play for them again. Johnny Headline-Bringing you the truth, the hole truth an nothing but the truth!!!!!! '" Quote ="MattyB"Is this the same Hock who (according to some) has played his last game for Wigan due to the rumours that have been going around??!! '" [uSat Oct 27, 2012 3:59 pm [/u viewtopic.php?f=28&t=539657&tsmp=1358891780 What do I win?

Quote ="Johnny Headline"Wigan have known since late December he wouldnt play for them again. Johnny Headline-Bringing you the truth, the hole truth an nothing but the truth!!!!!! '" Quote ="MattyB"Is this the same Hock who (according to some) has played his last game for Wigan due to the rumours that have been going around??!! '" [uSat Oct 27, 2012 3:59 pm [/u viewtopic.php?f=28&t=539657&tsmp=1358891780 What do I win?

I think that it the whole situation is a real shame for all involved (except perhaps Widnes, time will tell).

Based on the information that is currently in the public domain, then i have got to say all credit to IL and this is another example of his great leadership whilst at the club. If Hock was being such a disruptive and unruly influence then he simply had to go. I could not care a jot if there had been a bust up between him and Wane. The simple fact is he is an employee and needs to toe the party line.

However

I am not sure if i have it in me to be harsh on Hock.


If he has gone out his way to manufacture either a move or a sacking then he honestly deserves all the flack he will no doubt receive. He has been panned in the press by the Wigan club whilst exposing his complete lack of loyalty to both the club and fans. Did he not think that he may now no longer be welcome in his home town? Did he not realize that the vast amount of supporters who used to adore him, will now view him with nothing but contempt and in some cases hatred.

Sportsmen are professionals and they need to earn a living. Although i am irked by foreign players acting like mercenaries when it comes to increasing contracts and forcing their way out of the club, i am also a realist. Players play for cash and in 90% of cases they are possibly correct to do so (trying to be objective here).

Hock's situation however is wholly different to the vast majority of these cases. He plays for his hometown team that have brought him right through the ranks to become the player his now. The club (and IL in particular) really operated right at the extremities of what the UKDA would deem legal when looking after him during his hiatus. The cherry on the cake was to offer him a guaranteed 4 years worth of employment, even though his actions could be described as dis loyal.

He has no authority to demand higher pay. Any man with a shred of respect for himself should understand that he owes a debt of gratitude and loyalty to the club. He has some neck to demand a third pay rise even though he should have seen his current contract as almost probation for his previous indiscretion.

Is an extra few quid worth having a large percentage of the towns populace having a negative opinion of you?

He can move to Widnes of course (if that's were he ends up after this year), but the stigma of what he has done will always linger in the air. He will from this day on ALWAYS be a Judas in the towns eyes (sweeping statement i know, but you catch my drift).

I cant fathom out why a few quid extra wold be worth it? It would be a horrible thing to be chastised and in some cases hated by people who used to adore you.

Looking at his sorry mug on SLTV today showed a person who did not quite understand the ramifications of his actions. The realization of what he has done looks to have sunk in and it was not an easy watch.

I honestly do not think that Hock is the devious person he is being made out to be. I do think however that he has been on the wrong end of some terrible advice from a greedy agent of other 3rd party.

Whatever it was it has backfired on a rather large scale and he has to sleep in the bed he has made.

Leaving aside normal rational thinking. I genuinely hope he rots in a bottom of the table team and he never gets a sniff of the national side. Strange feelings to have for someone that i am beginning to pity

What a turgid situation.

Quote ="MattyB"[uSat Oct 27, 2012 3:59 pm [/u retro.rlfans.com/viewtopic.php?f ... 1358891780 What do I win? '" You know what you are? A bloody jinx

Quote ="MattyB"[uSat Oct 27, 2012 3:59 pm [/u retro.rlfans.com/viewtopic.php?f ... 1358891780 What do I win? '" You know what you are? A bloody jinx