Hold on, NK said it is a fact Saints have never been missing 5 players. I proved we have.

If he had said it's a fact we have never been missing 6 players for 8 weeks running I would have agreed. But he didn't. That's not my problem mate, I can't read his mind.

So you trawled through 14 months of Saints fixtures in 30 seconds? (Plus clearly you’ve looked through 4 years worth)

I’m sat chuckling (like a drunk old man) at you sat with a pen and paper trawling Saints fixture lists for missing players



Let’s try and go back to the actual point again-‘Saints haven’t had to deal with an injury crisis like every other club has had to in the last 4 and a bit years’ and all you’ve done is proven the point to be 100% correct.

Not much more to say really.

You’re holding on to that point like a life raft. You haven’t been the only Saints fan on here and the whole debate (that was going ok for a while…funny that) has been to discuss Saints lack of an injury crisis/major injury problems.

You’ve proven peoples point, so thank you. It isn’t all about you or my one line.

He said it AFTER saying many times "for a sustained period" or similar. The fact that you're effectively quoting him out of context to "prove" a point that simply isn't true is quite pathetic mate. It's schoolboy level debate.

Let's clear this up once and for all:

1) Have Saints had multiple players (5+) out FOR A SUSTAINED PERIOD and if so when?

2) When you have fielded these weakened teams have you usually lost?

Don’t pop his raft

He was playing as bench hooker. The very reason you said Cust couldn't be considered a hooker. It's quite simply one or the other: either Cust can be considered a hooker or Roby couldn't when he won MOS.

Regarding Hopoate, I get your point to a degree. However, I think NK was more referring to what he is now, not what he used to be. Would he, for example, be regarded as a potential fullback in the NRL now? Indeed, has he been signed as a potential fullback by Saints for that matter. Does he even have the pace to play that position? Even Lockyer didn't play that position once his pace had gone and he was on a whole different level.

If you agree that there would be a drop in quality from a player just six games into his first full season then you must agree there's merit in saying he isn't really a fullback any more. If not, then fine. It's all opinion in the end anyway.

Hopoate can be a specialist fullback, even though he doesn’t play there but Field, who does play there, can’t be! YG logic!

Ultimately the top and bottom line was that I think we have a bit more versatility in pivot positions that Saints and I stick by that. Saints are that good any disruption sees them hit, whereas we could actually improve with a shuffle around IMO.

The injury crisis debate was a side point (and YG has done an excellent job of highlighting the lack of one at Saints this past 4 and a bit years).

1) "looking after players" only takes you so far. You need luck too. You're speaking as if Saints conditioning staff have some secret, magic conditioning tricks that no other conditioners have access to. They don't. They may apply what they know very well but there'll be very little difference (if any) to how others apply the exact same knowledge. Luck plays a huge part. Are you saying that Saints develop young players better than Wigan? Really?

2) True. That's exactly the point being made. Saints" second string options probably (depending on your opinion) aren't as good as Wigan's. You may, of course, disagree.

3) You're jumping from average to World Class rather quickly there. Is Field the best player in Superleague at the moment? I would say so. Was French the best in 2020? Despite McShane winning MOS I think most would agree that French was the one who lit up the competition that year. Is Bateman works class? If not, point me to all the Dally M winning back rowers in the Saints team. Do internationals Hardaker & Farrell or World Cup winning Tommy Leuluai count as 'average'. What about Mago who played for the NRL finalists just last year? All average? I could go on; Marshall just called into the England squad, Cust and Ellis playing NRL last season etc. I could also laugh at the description 'world class' as a descriptor of all but 2 or 3 of your squad but I'll refrain for now.

4) If Saints had key injuries Wigan would beat them. Just like Toulouse did.

Wigan recently develop a lot of small fairly average forwards that get raved about for reasons I don’t yet understand. Looking at your team who are the really stand out players developed at Wigan? All your best players have been signed. Farrell and Marshall maybe? Then a bunch of forwards who get shown up quite a lot against decent packs. Smith was the next big thing until he wasn’t. KPP looks good but he was signed rather than academy trained.

Bateman is not word class and hasn’t been since he arrived back at Wigan. Hardaker has gone so far backwards it’s unreal. Farrell and Marshall I like and always have. Field looks electric against poor defence but I’d like to see him against Catalans/Saints before I decide how good he is - he got dropped from the NrL against intense defences pretty quickly so let’s see.

The Toulouse game had much more to do with attitude than personnel, just like london games of seasons past. If saints had key injuries I’m sure you’d be favourites. If both had key injuries you wouldn’t be - that’s more my point in response to depth comments I disagree with. It’s all very well talking about taking Walmsley out of saints but on this seasons evidence you’d struggle to score a point without field and against Catalans you didn’t with him (in a game everyone on here was saying was an acid test and payback for last year).

Why do Saints fans keep arguing the point that they’re a better side than us at present?

Whose said they aren’t?

So we have the following points being argued over-

1-Saints have a better side than us-True

2-Saints haven’t had an injury crisis in the last four plus years-True

3-We could cope slightly better with an injury crisis due to a lesser drop off in quality and because we have a bit more versatility in key positions-True (IMO)

4-Saints have won 3 GF’s on the spin but that’s been helped by a real lull in quality across the league (that’s been years in the making)-True


Points 2 and 4 really seem to sting them and make them labour point 1 over and again. Nobody, literally nobody is disputing point 1.

You lost against Toulouse-we didnt
We lost against catalan-you didnt
We have won 5
You have won 5
That are the facts as they stand.
You are the best team at the min,that is true,but you will not always be and I think it may end this Year.
This is my opinion

Byrne and Havard are neither small nor average. In fact I'd say Havard could possibly be the best young prop in the game. From the academy we also have Nsemba and McDonell, neither of who are small. Not sure what you mean there.

Bateman had a bad season last year along with the rest of the team. He's had a much better start this time around. Is he at his best? Not yet but if you're suggesting that, at 28, he's somehow finished I would suggest that's wishful thinking on your part. He's a class above anything you have at his best. That's not even up for debate...well unless as I say, you can point to the Dally M winning second rowers in your side.

Hardaker has been consistently picked by multiple England coaches including in the current squad and is the incumbent England centre. He isn't suited to the wing but he won't be playing there once we have players back. He's not the free scoring full back of his Castleford days but neither is he "average". By that reckoning, all the other English centres, including your own Percival who has so far been unable to displace him at international level, must be "less than average". I don't think you believe that, do you?

Field is CURRENTLY the best player in Superleague. If he does or does not do it at some point in the future is neither here nor there and doesn't change that fact. Describing him as "average" is both disingenuous and beneath you. We're also not playing in the NRL. French got dropped from there but was still the most destructive runner in Superleague. I'm guessing the majority of your team would be no great shakes in that competition either

We would be favourites for sure. We'd also be favourites if we both lost 5 or 6 frontline players as you'd feel it more. I agree that's only opinion but is the subject we're here discussing. Isn't that the point?

I think the Aussies summed it up best

I think they’re scared, Penrith said ‘we’ve got the venue and the date, come on over and play the game,'” the LeagueFreak said on the Fergo & the Freak podcast.

“St Helens fans got upset when I started mentioning all the Super League clubs that were willing to travel to Australia with the likes of Wigan, Leeds, Wigan again and Hull FC all making the trip in the past ten years.

“I pointed that out and Saints fans got upset and other NRL fans said it was weird they wouldn’t come.

Apparently their problem is that they want money.

“I pointed out that Saints aren’t Wigan and Leeds – there’s a certain draw for certain teams and I think St Helens need to understand that.

Nice one but true- Saints arent Wigan,Thus Wigan are a bigger draw with them being a tad more famous and a bigger club. Must really stick in the throat of the stains fans

19 pages of Wigan fans trying to convince themselves they are as good as St Helens.

Wow.

Inferiority complex much?

19 pages of stains fans trying to convince everyone they are the best ever team
WOW

Superiority complex much ?

I started reading this but when you “quote” things I didn’t say (like field is “average”) I lost interest

Just like the good old days!!!
I'm enjoying this

No I didn't trawl through 14 months. I went to fixtures that I had vague recollections of us missing players. It literally took 2 minutes.



That wasn't your point though. You said we had never been missing 5 players. I proved we had. It's as simple as that. You have since changed your approach to try and win some silly point instead of just saying you got it wrong.

No and I have never claimed otherwise.



Yes I have never claimed otherwise.

I never said Cust couldn't be classed as a hooker. Please stick to things I have actually said. I said you can't disregard Hopoate as a fullback if you count Cust as a hooker.

I never said Field isn't a full back. Never. You have made that up.

I simply said you cannot disregard someone with nearly 100 games at fullback but count Field as a half back with less than 10 games there or Cust as a hooker with a similar amount.

*What an absolute cop out.

So no answers then? I'll take it you agree with me on all points.

*I quoted you as describing Wigan players in general as average. I was disproving the point as well you know. Show me where you singled out Field, or any other Wigan player, as falling in the "World Class" category. You only mentioned 2 categories in your post: "Average" and "World Class". Which is he?

YG and his life raft is back like the turd that won’t flush.

You’ve had one game with 5 first team players missing through injury in the last four and a bit years. I was wrong that you’d had none and admitted that ages back.

I’ve said before, it isn’t all about you and this one comment, we were discussing the bigger picture well before you spat your dummy out.

Get some work done.

Cute. Didn't you say yesterday we should just stick to rugby and that we are better than this type of thing?



We haven't just had one game. That's just one example I found in the 2 minutes I was looking.



At no point have I spat my dummy out. You wrote something that was incorrect and was attempting to pass it off as fact. I simply corrected you.



I'm doing just fine thanks.