He doesn't want to play again hence the statement!

Quote ="Father Ted"I think Shaun Wane should be head coach. He was deputy to Mcguire and will have learned a lot from him. To me IL did the right thing and gave him a two year deal with a one year option. In his first season, despite some mistakes, his team topped the League after 27 games and won the Shield. Not the most prestigious these days but IMO the most difficult to win. SW's Wigan were the most consistent team in the League and for a period were playing some of the most breathtaking Rugby I've seen for years. We are now in a situation where we've lost a number of key players who have been difficult to replace, Carmont being the most obvious. Green, Taylor and Smith have to be given a chance and we'll see this season whether they have been good signings or not. As for GH, when he came back and signed the 5 year deal I always suspected it may end in tears, which it has done. Just look at the poor lad's face in that Widnes photo. He looks utterly bewildered and totally lost. Not seen the interview but I'm sure he said all the right words. Not a player or man to attract sympathy but I do feel somewhat sorry for him, that photo says an awful lot! I just wonder who has been advising him. From IL's statement it reads like he should have received better advice somewhere along the line. If this has been coming for a while then SW will have his squad sorted and know where each player will be, given that GH is no longer a squad member. I do think that maybe we are in unchartered territory with his contract. I've never heard of anyone going on a one year loan when there's three and a half years remaining on his contract. Suppose it goes belly up at Widnes, they can unload him at the end of the season. Would any other club take him on then or is he back with us? As we all know GH is a still very much a contracted Wigan player. How it pans out from here will be interesting given his contract status.'" I know the circumstances are different in terms of how the loan was instigated, but is he not in exactly the same situation as were Smith and Moore, when at Saints, they were both shipped out on 12 month loan deals to various clubs whilst still under long contracts with Saints. I suppose the main difference being that (I assume) either Smith or Moore would have jumped at the chance of being told they were wanted back at Saints. For the moment at least Hock seems to have no desire to play for Wigan again. The whole thing is quite bewildering, naturally as a Widnes fan I am delighted and you wonder what truth, if any, there was in stories of Hock coming to us in 2013 as early as June last year. He seems a little more relaxed on this Youtube video www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jl8kM7-Q ... PVt5BeR2hk

Quote ="Father Ted"I think Shaun Wane should be head coach. He was deputy to Mcguire and will have learned a lot from him. To me IL did the right thing and gave him a two year deal with a one year option. In his first season, despite some mistakes, his team topped the League after 27 games and won the Shield. Not the most prestigious these days but IMO the most difficult to win. SW's Wigan were the most consistent team in the League and for a period were playing some of the most breathtaking Rugby I've seen for years. We are now in a situation where we've lost a number of key players who have been difficult to replace, Carmont being the most obvious. Green, Taylor and Smith have to be given a chance and we'll see this season whether they have been good signings or not. As for GH, when he came back and signed the 5 year deal I always suspected it may end in tears, which it has done. Just look at the poor lad's face in that Widnes photo. He looks utterly bewildered and totally lost. Not seen the interview but I'm sure he said all the right words. Not a player or man to attract sympathy but I do feel somewhat sorry for him, that photo says an awful lot! I just wonder who has been advising him. From IL's statement it reads like he should have received better advice somewhere along the line. If this has been coming for a while then SW will have his squad sorted and know where each player will be, given that GH is no longer a squad member. I do think that maybe we are in unchartered territory with his contract. I've never heard of anyone going on a one year loan when there's three and a half years remaining on his contract. Suppose it goes belly up at Widnes, they can unload him at the end of the season. Would any other club take him on then or is he back with us? As we all know GH is a still very much a contracted Wigan player. How it pans out from here will be interesting given his contract status.'" I know the circumstances are different in terms of how the loan was instigated, but is he not in exactly the same situation as were Smith and Moore, when at Saints, they were both shipped out on 12 month loan deals to various clubs whilst still under long contracts with Saints. I suppose the main difference being that (I assume) either Smith or Moore would have jumped at the chance of being told they were wanted back at Saints. For the moment at least Hock seems to have no desire to play for Wigan again. The whole thing is quite bewildering, naturally as a Widnes fan I am delighted and you wonder what truth, if any, there was in stories of Hock coming to us in 2013 as early as June last year. He seems a little more relaxed on this Youtube video www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jl8kM7-Q ... PVt5BeR2hk

Don't forget he is still a Wigan player! I hope he plays very well for Widnes and helps them to some wins against our main rivals. Under the deal he won't play against Wigan. Under the circumstances dealt to the Wigan club this is a good deal.

And it doesn't seem like Wigan want him here either so if that is the case despite the fact I am all for players being held to contracts would it be possible to challenge Wigan as being unreasonable here? That is Wigan hold him to a contract when they have not intention of letting through the door again? Very different to simply wanting a player to fulfil his contractual obligations.



It's all part of IL's master plan. He can knock spots off our mutual rivals playing for you and destabilises your squad while he does it. Agent Hock it is

Seems to me that Hock's tried to bluff/bully his way out fo the club, IL has called him on it and now the guy's in limbo. Being shipped around to lower league clubs on loan isn't a great way to end your career. I just wonder if any teams would actually want to buy him in view of what IL has come out and said...

I would make 3 points:

1. We don't know what has gone on. There is little point in speculation, though Gareth's body language on the link is that of someone who is gutted to have left.

2. Wigan are seriously weaker without him. If it wasn't the case before (which imo it was) IL really needs to strengthen the squad now.

3. What happens to his CC space? Do Wigan get any relief?

Widnes aren't a lower league club. They're in the same league.

I know, that was in response to the comparison with Noble. But I somehow deleted the quote, I was leaving work. In a hurry. My point is Lenegan's commitment to SW's "vision" is resolute. That can only be good for the club as we lose a host of world class players.

Only if Wane's "vision" is any good and delivers.

The evidence so far suggests IL will let his coaches do their own thing and he judges them at the end of their contracts. So I wouldn't put it as strongly as IL being resolutely committed to anything. I don't think IL is after Jam tomorrow either. He expects success sooner rather than later.

Betts says in that video that there is no fee involved at all.

For those thinking if Wane goes Hock will return must be delusional. Hock will never play for Wigan again and not should he.

He has clearly done something that his bosses are not happy with and as good as he is no player is bigger than the club.

Thanks for the memories Gaz, but time for everyone to move on.

One thing that cannot be denied is the club and his these same bosses stood by and supported Hock, through the darkest days of his career. Doing something to anger his bosses to the level where he is deemed surplus to requirements shows he has a total lack of respect for what they did for him. He should have done everything the club asked him, clearly he has not, hence the situation we found ourselves in now.

Is there jam tomorrow in RL? If you build a good squad and win something it'll be decimated. However if you build a e squad, play badly and win things... Leeds

I think that Wane and everyone else at Wigan are well aware of IL's expectations for the club.

1- My main gripe with Wane is that he took a very successful side and changed the funder-mental principle of what made us so successful - Our mean, rough and tough defence. It's ok being your own man with your own ideas on how the game should be run but you've also gotta realise the basic time old principle of Attack wins games were defence wins championships. It's the basis and mantra of the Melbourne Storm and unsurprisingly Wigan under Maguire. I'm sure some clever d!ck will show some stats to say we conceded x-amounts of points last year compared to our time under Madge.

2-His harsh training methods. It seems some on here have very short memories in regards to the amount of players we lost because of training ground injuries last year. It screams of being stuck in the dark days of RL and old school coaching methods of full contact training all the time. I'm some fools on here love that. They still believe that RL players have it easy compared to a proper working day etc.

3-His big I am attitude in the media - How many seriously embarrassing comments did he make last season? How many times did he have to reiterate that he's his own man or confirm to the press what he's done or how he's changed things. It's on par with Noble sayings like throwing the baby out with the bath water. If your going to act like a Mourinho then expect people to bring you bang to rights when you fall flat.

4-His over-reliance on Wigan youngsters. We all like to see kids brought through but the ranks but Wane is blinkered with his loyalty towards them. First example is the Widnes away game. He loads the side with kids and then when we unsurprisingly lose he still thinks he's done no wrong and that the young lads had someone let HIM DOWN when it's actually the other way around. 2nd example of Murphy playing in the most important game of the season vs Leeds. Stupid and arrogant decision on Wane's part to stick a kid in the firing line against what are the most successful side of the last 5 years. Did he really not envisage that an astute RL player like Sinfield wouldn't have peppered him?

Now don't get me wrong here every coach has faults. Madge certainly had them but at the end of the day he also got results with a talented side. Heck even McDermott at Leeds has countless faults but has still managed to make sure his team of champions are ready in October. Wane had a quality side at his disposal but didn't win anything worth bragging about.

Do others not see the above? Or is it that he's from the WN post code which means he escapes criticism as Wigan is the most secular place on earth.

At the end of the day he has to trust his players. Jack Murphy playing in the playoff can't be used as a stick to beat Wane with. He is the reserves full back and the first team full back was injured. If he didn't think he was good enough to play there would be no point Murphy being at Wigan.

What poop squad is that that you talk about?

It's certainly coming to the end of it's run but;

Webb, Peacock, Buderus, JJB, Sinfield, Burrow, Maguire, Ellis, Senior, Hall, Watkins, Leuleui, Donald etc

All have played huge parts in the continued success seen at Leeds. Some have left, some have got old and retired whilst some have struggled. Such is time but it certainly doesn't detract from their collective achievements.

Don't blame the team blame the system that allows it.

Hock also seems to be bitter that we didnt let him go to Leeds, Saints or Warrington.

You may well be right but the point I was making was I don't think IL has joined Wane on the Road to Damascus which is what you post read like to me. He's just letting Wane get on with it, giving him what he asks for (within reason I suppose!) and will judge him on the results.

Just because a player isn't ready to play in the biggest games today doesn't mean he's not ever going to be ready.

Murphy might be really highly rated by all at the club BUT the magnitude of the game, the opposition that day and also his lack of game time was a recipe for disaster for everyone. A risk that didn't have to be taken

There were other more sensible and secure options out there for Wane to pick from i.e. Richards to FB - Thornley or Gelling to the Wing.

Also by your reasoning then Williams or Hampshire should have played when Tommy was injured shouldn't they? Instead we move half our team round to play Lockers @ 6 as he wouldn't risk a youngster in none event games?

It doesn't weigh up.

Some great, some not so great... I won't go into details, but the point is only Burrow and Hall are in their prime and they still won the grand final. But come the big occasion they've 13 world beaters. Somehow.

1 - Our defence looked shaky at times but it also looked solid at times. That happens in a season.

2 - Agree on this one. Something was clearly wrong last year with the number of setbacks players suffered.

3 - Said on here many times he needs to be quiet but hardly reasons to sack him.

4 - Is that the same group of kids that had the game won TWICE. Our first team did this a number of times under Maguire and also under Wane. The one criticism you could give from that game would be his substitutions. He had an inexperienced front 3 on the pitch at the same time as opposed to a mixed one.
Jack Murphy didn't cost us the game against Leeds nor did the team selection. Experienced players failing to kill the game when ahead cost us. We constantly tried to find the killer ball when 12-11 up and forced the play. We didn't need to do this and should have taken a leaf out of Sinfield's book and played the percentages. Had Finch put the ball in touch and not tried a fancy ass flick fir example then the Murphy incident wouldn't have happened. I also don't think Sam or even Paddy would have caught the kick because of the way it moved.

SW made mistakes last year but none that require his sacking. We blew two semi finals but you could argue were robbed in two withthe McGuire knock on and Peacock incident in the cup and the Goulding penalty in the playoffs. It's how SW learns from his mistakes that will define this season. If he flogs us all year we'll fade away again. If our top 22 players all get good game time and stay fresh as possible we'll be in with a shout come playoff time.

That's the system and not the players.

You give an old warrior with some left in his tank the motivation to win the league over 6 games then they will ultimately take it. Not many follow the NFL book look at Ray Lewis at the moment and the effect his pending retirement is having on the Ravens.

Running rings around someone who is hurting with little motivation in June is easy. It's a lot more tougher when they are focused on the title come Sept/October.

Btw i'd love to know which of those players aren't that great?

No Sam Powell and he did play against Hull but then got injured. Hampshire and Williams were in the U18s not the 20s and when Tommy was away weren't they in Australia touring????

Haha I'd love to say but my views are my own and would be readily dismissed as bias or stupidity. I will say that Hall, Peacock and Senior are my favourites from that bunch. You're bang on otherwise, for me the biggest shame about last season is that neither Tommy not Brett were themselves in the later stages. When they could have won the league in three games.

Thanks BK. There are 20 pages on this thread and lots of silly comments. This is one of the few that actually raises the key questions of how this is going to affect the team.

None of us know exactly what went on. What we can say is that to lose a player of Hock's ability, whatever the issues may have been, is a sad day for the club and Gareth.

We look to be in the weakest shape for a few years as we go into the new season. Having said that, standards in SL are slipping and we don't need to be great to do well this year. The competiton looks mediocre, so perhaps it's not that worrying after all!

No idea on the cap space issue. Common sense would suggest Wigan should only be assessed to the extent that they are still paying part of Hock's wages and that the part paid by Widnes should count towards Widnes players' wages for cap purposes, but this is RL and the joke that is the salary cap, so common sense will have very little to do with it.