I've seen a team plagued by the salary cap and poor management (before Nobby arrived) move up from rock bottom to 3rd.

Last year, due to no one's fault we lost our best player TB, if he would have honoured his full contract he would still have been here this season, this has had a massive knock-on effect with the halfbacks trying to start up a new partnership. TB was a leader, and had the ability to win a game for us. We now have to live without that. Not Nobby's fault.

I've also seen improved contracts for young Wigan lads keeping them in the Wigan team developing them along

-Hansen (Wigan Acd)
-Lockers
-J Tomkins
-S Tomkins
-Hock
-O Carroll
-Precott
-Ainscough to name a few.

Not letting the youngster go is improvement in the past we've seen
-Briscoe
-Wild
-Robinson
-Ashton

All let go due to contract issues.

Additionally we've replaced under achievers with better players

MacAvoy was starting centre when Nobby came, now we have Carmont.
Richards was in the other centre, he was bad, now he's one of our best players at either wing or FB.
No more Danny Orr or Moron.
Players with other 'issues' are moved on-Brown, Godwin, Moron for the good of the club.

A bigger squad with more young Wigan lads involved.
No longer is the salary being breached
Scouting plans (already scouting for 2010 onwards)
backroom fitness staff added.

Release of other players who weren't good enough
-Tickle
-Calderwood
-Jordan James.

This is a lot of improvement since Nobby arrived.
-

In 2007 we finished the league 12 pts behind the winner with a points for and against 267 less than the champs. In 2008 those figures were 14 and 553 respectively. We are falling further behind. And in a comp that the WC showed to be hardly earth shattering in its quality. Why isn't everybody taking this on board?

Good post...although everything is nowhere near perfect at the minute the club has improved since Nobby arrived and even more so since Lenegan took over. Some Wigan fans have to get in the real world and realise that Lindsey and Millward left the club in a right state and it is going to take a few years to rectify...

We are not in the same league as Saints and Leeds just yet. But we still finished 3rd and in 08 came a damn sight closer to beating Leeds that we did in 07.

We've come along way under Nobby.

Fair points but:

last season Wigan only finished 3rd due to Warringtons total failure in the last few games (which surprised many) by rights we should have finished 5th or even 6th, thats is a step down from the previous seson and the points difference was much worse.

how many games in the last two season have the team played well - winning by playing good rugby...not by grinding out results. 3 or 4 a season - nad manybe one or two in the playoffs

how many young players have really had a chance under Noble? Not by being selected due to injury to other players.

Ok we lost McAvoy,James,Orr and Moran yet we have Mathers,Phelps,Coley - a significant improvement? I don't think so.

Noble did well for us in the first season since then the club ahve not gone forward - we are no closer to catching up with Saints and Leeds and if Warrington and Braford get their acts together we could be even further behind.

But how much further do you think nobby can take us? That's the question. For me, we showed nothing last year and have started this in the same vein. Of course, a nice easy victory tonight would help!

This is why we need to give Nobby another season in charge, we've come along way, lets see what happens this season.

When I left the JJB in the snow last Sun I was fed up with another terrible display by the boys in cherry and white.
Was also annoyed at Nobby for his so predictable 'subs by the clock' not the game and how some gluring errors weren't fixed.

But then I realised it's match day one. There's always a bigger picture. Let's see how the season unfolds.

How far Nobby can take us is yet to be seen, I think a review at the end of the season would be justified.

Wigan lack consissancy. that's my area of concern. Need to have a winning mentality installed into the players, I really believe Nobby is working towards that.

I half expect a 26-6 W to Hull tonight, but yet again Wig could put 30 points past them, thats my point.

But by playoffs, (maybe even with another signing or two) we'll be there or there abouts.

Excellent post.

Noble has taken us as far as he can IMO. He's stabilised us and brought together what is IMO a good set of players but he’s taken them as far as he can. I can’t see us getting to that next level with him.

What we need now is someone who will come in work with the good squad that we have and create;

1-A winning mentality/culture in the club- The kind of culture where you have to pull your weight as it's demanded of you. The type of culture Wigan used to have where they set the highest possible standards in every area. It’s the type of culture UTD have at the moment where players are forced to track back, work hard and new players are forced to adopt up the UTD philosophy.

2-He has to revolutionise our back division. Bring in a specialist coach someone like Johns or Lam who will get us firing on all cylinders. We’ve got the talent here Richards is a dam good finisher as is Roberts, Smith Holds the record for NRL assists for God sake. You wouldn’t know it tho under the system Noble plays. Goulding needs someone who will show him how to convert his potential talent into actual SL talent same with Tomkins. Like I’ve said the foundations are there but we need some to move it forward.

3-It sort of links into culture but we need a new coach to come in and update our training methods. As someone said in another topic gone are the days when players like Inga are brought into the side and are forced to work hard on their fitness. We got some of the best facilities in RL but were not the fittest team in SL? Why not? Let’s get someone in who can bring in new training systems and again raise the bar again as the likes of Monie and Lowe did.

4-Lastly we need a new coach who will develop our young talent. One of the good points of Andersson at Saints was the progression their juniors made under him. We need a coach that isn’t over obsessed on size. Lets see our young talent develop some skills as well as their physical attributes.

It’s not to much to ask for Wigan RL is it?

I think we need to give Nobby a year to produce what we all desire, so far his movements have really bettered Wigan. For that I believe he is still worth keeping, I'd review it at the end of the season.

So we'll have waited 3 1/2 years to see some good rugby?

No we've seen a rock bottom team become the 3rd best maybe 2nd or 1st.

Lets just go and get another coach and start from stratch instead. Maybe you can suggest another unrealistic candidate. Rather than stick with someone who has the success of Noble.

we need john monie

We were lucky to get 4th last year. If Warrington had had a half decent finish to the season we'd have ended up 5th. We actually should have got 3rd but for a few terrible results. We've got a coach who prides himself on defensive RL, not on attacking RL and we still finished on a minus for points.

I said last season that "I'm happy to be playing dull rugby as long as we're winning, for the time being". At that point we were winning but we were playing incredibly boring rugby. Last season, for me, was the worst as a Wigan fan. I was struggling to stay interested in the game and found myself chatting instead of watching. I said I'd renew my season ticket this year and see how we go. I know we're only one game in to the season but if we continue like this I'm going to be bored again. It's Nobby's coaching that's doing this, not the players, not IL, not the fans.

I go to the rugby to be entertained, to have a good enjoyable night. I don't want to go down the route of the thread about loyal fans but if this continues I'll lose interest very rapidly. That being said, I'm not a man of my word and I can see me watching wigan out for the foreseeable future no matter how we're playing

Right Nobby as just left...WHO will take over ???

If IL is only willing to pay upto 70k for a player would he break the bank to buy out a realistic coaches contract ?

We all want a winning team.

See what happens this season, then we all have every right to get on Noble's back for 2010.

Personally I would love to see Edwards or Wayne Bennett at the club if Noble went/sacked.

Let's be honest - we're not 3rd best.

Yes, we've played well in the last couple of seasons' play-offs and, technically speaking, we did finish 3rd overall. But we all know in ourselves that this was misrepresentative of our general peformance during the two years in question.

I think it would be more accurate to describe Wigan as an upper-middle table team. Beating Leeds one week and then losing to someone like Wakey the next does not mean you're better than Leeds. It means you can occasionally rouse yourself to compete with them, often at the expense of another fixture. And that is obviously nowhere near good enough for a club like Wigan, who at one time could have taught Leeds and Saints to shell peas they were so far ahead of them.

Most people knocking Noble at present want what's best for Wigan. They're trying to give a realistic assessment, and are bringing their own experience of watching, and maybe playing, top-class rugby on a regular basis to point out and what seems to be persistant under-achievement. It's too easy to class the Noble-knockers as being fantasists who think we have a right to win everything. As I see it, they're not saying that - they just want to see a radical improvement in the various areas where, under Noble, we seem to be inexplicably lacking.

The main question now, as I see it, is can Noble address these issues early enough this season to make our final run-in less exhausting on the players? Or, maybe more importantly, is he willing to do that? Because if he's going to stick bloody-mindedly to the current fare, which isn't just boring to watch but is also largely unsuccessful, then I don't see how the club can continue with him. The last thing Wigan want now is the fans drifting away.

I agree

Everyone wants whats best for this club. but If Noble was sacked tomorrow who being realistic could we get ??

Edwards, bennett are not going to happen. All the so called top coaches are under contract..IL as said hes only willing to spend upto 70k for a player would he spend more on a top coach ?

Only guy i can think of is Smith but his he any better than Nobby.Given what we witnessed in Aussie i say hes not.

This is only my opinion but i'm struggling to find a realistic name whos going to be wigans messiah

twinkle toe's

I've said this myself on a number of occasions - we should stick with Noble because there's no-one else. Also, because to dispense with a coach mid-season can often cause disruption.

However, Noble's contract will finish at the end of this season anyway, so sooner or later we'll have to cross that bridge. Secondly, if this season goes t1ts up in the manner of the 'relegation' season (and I know it's too early to say that after one game, but last Sunday's performance was truly THAT bad) - then IL and co will have to ask which is the lesser of two evils - the difficulty and expense of finding a new coach (which they'll have to do soon anyway), or endless humiliation and fans drifting away in potential large numbers?

I think IL is astute enough to know that he can't keep the Wigan fan family together indefinitely if there's no sign of an improvement on the field. That said, I'd expect him to give Noble a fair crack of the whip this season. Judgement can't realistically be passed after a handful of games.

David Waite.

Ellery Hanley

I would also actually like to see Mark Aston get a crack.

People will pooh pooh the latter but he has done a hell of a job with Sheffield much in the same way our last decent coach did in the lower Leagues Mike Gregory.

The fact that he does not have a Wigan connection will suddenly have people claiming it to be a ridiculous idea, but the lad has talent, although maybe at a big club he would need time as an assistant first.

What do you think about Tony Smith?

Just because he couldn't rein in the Leeds and Saints egos during the World Cup, does that make him a poor coach?

Who could have done with that bunch of prats?

Maybe a healthy dislike of Leeds and Saints - as a result of the WC experience - could be just the sort of thing we need.

Personally, I don't like his public profile - he's too often a surly Aussie for my liking - but he got Leeds playing very well. And he's availalbe, as far as I'm aware.

He also got Huddersfield playing to the best of their abilities. I wouldn't mind seeing him in charge here.

What are peoples thoughts on Lam?

great taste but a bit on the fatty side

Has he had much top-level experience beyond the WC?