Oh, I agree that it's highly unlikely King will ever play for us while Powell is in charge.

Just a matter of how Wire manage to get the best deal for him.

So a coach can only have authority over a squad if he's been previously successful?

Funny to think that the best deal might still be a financial hit for Warrington.

If he’s gone in swinging his d*ck around then yea. I wouldn’t put it past someone saying who are you. I didn’t know you was in the room when they had those conversations so how do you know who’s the wrong.

And if any of that squad did try to say that, then they would rightly get binned. It's not like any of them had done anything to warrant lording it over the coach, whoever they was.

This was a squad that had failed badly for 3 consecutive years.

Could be, but funnily enough, if he continues to do ok for you this year, then it can only make that increasingly unlikely.

Now if he was doing rubbish, then we could indeed make a bad loss

You got rid of them last season and you were saved from relegation by a very poor Toulouse side.

If you mean you'd like to ignore an entire season in order to make your narrative work, then go ahead. The rest of us prefer not to change history.

At what point did Cooper join you and King join Huddersfield?. Also several other players left at various other points, along with players coming in at random moments.

Even you would admit that wouldn't make for an ideal scenario for a side to be producing results?

The point is, that last season was very much the definitive 'transition' that most sensible Wire fans knew was needed after the previous deterioration under Price - if it meant weeding out and upsetting the egos, then so be it. Like I say, the improvement in form is there to see so far, so, for the moment, Powell looks vindicated in how he went about things.

Doubtful we’ll ever find out, but do Wigan need him more than Wire need him off the books? It’ll all play out and may be a game of patience but I’d suggest the club who can look freely at other options (including the ones they have internally) is in the stronger position. Maybe a club comes out of left field but I’m struggling to see who.

You were poor all season; before and after the 2 players you mentioned were gone.

Let's look at this "ego" narrative you're putting forward, shall we? Both King and Cooper have come to a club to play under a coach who is notorious about discipline. Both are thriving. Cooper wasn't deemed a problem for over a decade but suddenly was. King played for a team last year who were desperate to keep him. He has also just played for England under the biggest disciplinarian in the game. One who now has dealings with him on a day to day basis at club and so would have the clearest picture possible of whether his "ego" was a problem. Apparently it wasn't.

You can plough this furrow all you like and claim that results a season later vindicate your view but they don't. All it shows is that Powell fell out with certain players who are not deemed a problem elsewhere. Is that the players or Powell?

Finally the improved results are basically because you've revamped your pack. Nothing to do with "egos". How do you know, for example, that King wouldn't have shown the same improvements behind your new pack? Let's be honest here; we've played you once already and both of our centres were better than either of yours. Not hypothesis but fact*

*Referencing that one game, not as an absolute marker.

Didn't you win the cup in those three years? In which case doing more than Powell has done?

Our best centre hasn't played yet this season to be fair.

Wrench?

Aye. An absolute class act. Just hope he comes back from his ACL as good as he was before. Definitely a future international in my opinion, in a position the national team has struggled in for years.

Yea he looks a decent prospect. Like you said need to see how he comes back after this ACL. Also hopefully it’s not a reoccurring injury

Agreed, good luck to him

Agreed.

I was merely pointing out that the narrative DSM was putting forward was a false one. Both King and Cooper would have added to your squad over the likes of Dudson (not hard, admittedly) and your current centre incumbents. To suggest that the upturn in form is some masterstroke on Powell's part when both players are thriving at another club (and indeed at international level in King's case) has Primrose and Blue specs all over it at best and is downright delusional at worst.

Powell has done a good job so far this season but it's been based wholly on revamping your pack not by getting rid of supposed "egos" or troublemakers. That's unless you consider the likes of Dudson, Dufty or Vaughan as paragons of virtue. I'm sure you don't but, in case you do, let me put you straight. They are no better (actually, let's be honest, far worse) than King or Cooper when it comes to "ego" or the ability to cause trouble.

This so called super pack we have is nowhere near as good as everyone makes out.
Mcguire - shown little, picked up long ban.
Dudson - see above.
Makiele - was in great form, gone home!
Harrison - picking up a lot of niggling injuries.
Kasiano - good as impact prop but having to do long minutes due to bans/injuries.
Currie/Clark - both showing signs of age. One(if not both) leaving at the end of season.
Nicholson - superb, thanks for him!


You can see why people say we rely on Vaughan too much.

How has McGuire gone since the Wigan game? I thought he looked ready for the knackers yard that night but there was plenty of benefit of the doubt to be given, with him having to do long minutes, him lacking much support around him and him having come back from a long lay off.

He's not shown much for someone who is a SOO and international player. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt at the moment, but I'm not hopeful this is going to turn out to be a good signing.

Presumably he’ll improve with match fitness. There may also be an element of trying to keep his nose clean at the minute.

I wouldn't refer to it as a 'super pack'. Just improved from last year. I also think your analysis is a little selective. Makiele may have gone home but he contributed a lot to your good start to the season and, by extension, several of the 9 wins you've put on the board. Whether he's gone home is of little consequence as DSM wasn't discussing the rest of the season. Only the difference Powell has made so far this. Ditto Kasiano. It doesn't really matter if he is less effective as a starting prop as he hasn't played as one during your good run. Every team has injuries, niggling and otherwise, so your assessment of Harrison is a little disingenuous. His form has been good enough to warrant International selection! And you haven't mentioned Bullock at all!

I doubt anyone, including your good self, is suggesting that your pack hasn't been considerably better than last season's. That's the point I was making regarding the Powell "getting rid of egos" narrative. It's a false narrative that put too much emphasis on something that may be, but probably isn't, true whilst completely ignoring other, far more important factors.

King and Cooper both tested the limits of what they could get away with whilst at Warrington - due to a culture Powell inherited.

King and Cooper are intelligent enough (well Cooper is, King couldn't follow the plot of Peppa Pig) to realise this wouldn't fly at Wigan and rightly so - new workplace, new set of rules.

Powell, whatever his faults, is trying to instil that kind of culture at Warrington where people can't consistently leave training early, can't forget passports, can't make their own way home, can't shoulder barge the coach etc etc.

Currently working out well for all parties.

I agree with your last statement.

For debate's sake though I'll still take issue with the rest. If Cooper is intelligent enough to know it won't fly at Wigan then he's presumably intelligent enough to realise it won't fly at Warrington under a new coach who's trying to instill a particular culture. Surely then, if he couldn't be brought on board, that's down to how the coach handled it rather than the player having some sort of "ego" problem. If that was genuinely the case then presumably he'd still have the same ego which would prevent him from buying into it here. That's not been the case. In fact he's regarded as a leader already at Wigan.

Same for King. If he's genuinely too stupid to realise what was required at Warrington then I simply have to say the Wigan education system must indeed be something special! If we discount that being the case, then the same applies as to Cooper.

Sorry, but it still doesn't wash for me. At best I'll accept that Powell wasn't able to communicate, persuade or convince well enough to get them on board. Which leaves me asking the same question; Powell or players?

We're getting a little sidetracked here anyway. I was merely pointing out (as I've said a few times now) that the "egos" narrative was clearly one that fits a certain viewpoint but, in reality, had little basis in objective truth. It was being questioned by your own fans last year too but it's surprising what a few wins under the belt can do

I think a new employee would be more inclined to accept the routine at his new place of work, whether it be sport club or factory, than a culture change by new management somewhere where he has been one of the top dogs for years.