Feels like we’ve had Batemans best years looking at that. He’s always had that determination and aggression that made him a surprise package and meant he played way above his weight but he looked his weight today and there is no surprise there anymore. He looks to have lost a bit of his edge to me.

Bateman hasn't really done anything of note for a good 12 - 18 months. He was good during his second spell with us, but he certainly wasn't great. Since then he's moved to a poor team and things certainly haven't got any better. He's one of their big names and he's simply not performing - West's won't improve until he (& a couple of others do too).

Looking at the team Wane named, I've never been more glad that he's not our coach anymore. Won't sit well with some of his fan boys, but for me he's massively overrated.

Thought Moore had a poor game. Tonga first try was obstruction on Smith, even though the commentary team keep rambling on about King coming in. Tongan player running in and pushing Welsby on the head has been a yellow or red all season.
Thought Smith, McMeeken, Radley, Johnson and Knowles went well. Lewis was decent in attack but needs to improve his defence and stop ripping the ball out.

I don’t think there were any bad performances but not too many good ones.

We looked like a team that hadn’t played together before which reflects on the lack preparation time.

It was a good second half, once we stopped loving them position we were in control of the game but need to offer more in attack. I’d say our best performers were the subs, Knowles lifted the intensity in defence and McMeekin did well.

Both teams will be better next week

Moore was awful as usual. For both sides. He gave a forward pass against Havili that was never forward as Tonga were getting on top. Straight after he missed Whitehead knocking on from a kick and give a drop out which we scored off the set. Just for balance. He wasnt biased to either side hes just a poor ref

Harry Smith was definitely MOM. The most important cog in the machine, much as he is with Wigan. Was always going to Lewis for his eye catching contributions but he needs to cut down on the defensive lapses at this level, in particular the needless ball stripping penalties. Great debut from him though and he's already thinking about how he can improve as shown from his aftermatch interview. Smith/Lewis could be a very effective combination going forward.

I agree with the forwards comments earlier. I said prior to the game that it's my main issue with Waney. Too eager to accommodate forwards in his own image i.e. small grafters with aggression. Burgess and McMeeken went well along with Hill, but at least 2 of those are nearing the end of their careers. Lees has always been too small at 15 stone 10 for international level and was largely ineffective. Same for Bateman, on this showing at least. Whitehead too old going forward. We need to find the next generation of big forwards if we're not to be left behind.

I enjoyed the game and looking forward to to the rest of the series.

I kept wondering if Lees was concussed because of the amount of time he spent not just lying on players but just lying around the ruck on the floor before finally making his way back in to the defensive line. It’s a mystery to me how Mulhern didn’t get selected ahead of a couple of the props. He’s been the best British prop in Superleague by a fair way.

We have bigger guys coming through who weren't available for these tests, of course, but we should really be blooding Dupree and Mulhern in my opinion. I doubt Waney will see beyond the tried and tested though. He's a 'stick rather than twist' coach when it comes to forwards.

There is plenty to be said for loyalty but at the start of a cycle now which builds towards a World Cup, I’m not sure there is a great deal of use in playing Hill or Whitehead for starters. Whitehead is retiring from the game altogether in 12 months, so personally Farrell would’ve been selected and then Whitehead possibly given a game if the series was in the bag come game 3. We do need to win games though, so I can understand why he’s gone the way he has but the balance feels a little off to me and I’d have started the series with guys who will be around in 2 or 3 years time.

Same NK. I just don't see the value in persisting with guys who will be retiring soon, past their best or not suited to the international stage. Faz would probably come into the same bracket for me although it's hard to deny him a long overdue opportunity. If we're being ruthless in growing towards a world cup then he isn't the answer. Lees should be nowhere near the team either. Makes no yards at Superleague level, nevermind against much bigger international squads. Has no discernible skillset beyond being able to tackle but so can everyone else at this level and, as you say, even that seemed to be a bit of a struggle yesterday.

We have a few bigger guys to come back and several that could filter through over the next few years but we really need to start thinking in terms of what we need going forward. If Whitehead, Hill, Lees, Faz, Bateman (if it's decline rather than form) etc are not the guys to take us into the next world cup, we should be looking at players who might be.

Faz I do feel could make that next World Cup. They’d need to gain his thoughts I guess but he’s 33 and will be 36 when that is played. You would possibly rule out many forwards at that age but he’s a physical freak and I could see him still playing to a really high level at that point. He’s been criminally underused in international rugby league and I was surprised that continued yesterday. He is a better player than Whitehead or Bateman IMO and just because he didn’t make a move to the NRL wouldn’t change my opinion. It was the same with Roby but you could half understand his and Farrell’s treatment with Wayne Bennett in charge.

I agree. He offers more than our current backrowers in my opinion. Similar defensively but more in attack. It's just that if there's any question marks about his availability going forward then we need to be looking elsewhere. I wouldn't deny him his opportunity this time around though. As you say, he hasn't been involved as much as he perhaps should have been. Funnily enough, it's his size that has been the issue and that probably wouldn't have been the case to the same extent under Wane.

On the topic of larger forwards we have several who could be there or thereabouts come the World cup. Havard, Delaney, Byrne, KPP, Oledzki (needs to regain form) among others. Wild card shouts for Nsemba and Walters too. Not a comprehensive list by any means but some genuine size amongst that lot which needs to be integrated sooner rather than later.

Byrne's Irish, isn't he?

I thought he opted to play for Ireland but was also eligible for England?

39 metres for Lees yesterday but he made the most tackles on either side with 39. Is that enough at international level? The only way it can be is if you’ve got other forwards picking up the slack going forward IMO. He has that with Walmsley, Paasi, Sironen and co at Saints and plays his role really well. I think you need to be a bit more rounded at international level. I wouldn’t pick Liam Byrne for the same reasons because unless you can up that output with the ball, you’re going to be treading water for long periods.

Nowhere near enough. It's more than the pure yardage though NK. You can 'damage' the opposition (for want of a better term) with the strength of your runs even if you are taking it into the teeth of the opposition and not necessarily racking up the yards. Lees has nothing in attack. He's too easy to deal with at this level.

He seemed to add a better running game at the end of 2022, when I thought he was absolutely superb in the absence of Walmsley and he played a huge part in Saints winning the GF but it looks ti have regressed again this year. I do rate Lees but just not at international level, where I don’t think his game suits what is needed.

On a side note, Welsby highlighted why I think he’d need to move to 6 in the NRL IMO. He made 55 metres at just over 3 metres a carry. They won’t entertain that at fullback in the NRL but they’ll most certainly entertain his energy, desire and that world class assist he came up with.

The same quality of pass that SOL came up on almost a weekly basis...

The saints fans seem to have forgotten about that though

Aye, it’s only the second best pass I’ve seen on that ground. It was a beauty mind. I didn’t think Johnstone got enough credit in reading it though. It would’ve been easy for him to snatch at it to early, rather than waiting for it to drop for him.

Fair play to JW, it was a cracking pass! Not the first time we have seen it though

Wiganers are built different

Who can forget the pass from SOL to Sarge (at saints)-left to right at pace very difficult to execute with precision but
but SOL did.Classy very classy (and we won that game).

Unlikely any of us will ever see a better pass.

One of the best passes I've seen on a rugby field. Outside of Wigan I think he was always criminally underrated.

The exception being, I think Nathan Brown came out after that game and said Lockers took them to school that day.

i can't see who the NRL 6 it is that Welsby could replace. I just don't think he's that good.

I've just been (belatedly) watching some of the Pacific Championship games. Is he better than Dylan Brown, say? Is he hell.

Do you rate Luke Metcalf? Luke Brooks? Jack Cogger? Brandon Trindall? Sean O’Sullivan? Jackson Hastings? Te Maire Martin? Tyson Gamble? Jamal Fogherty? Chad Townsend? Toby Sexton? Sean O’Sullivan? Jayden Sullivan

All down to start in the halves

Welsby is a twice the player than a lot of these, still with a load of improvement in him.

People thinking the NRL is full of elite talents is a myth, most of the top SL players would be great over there.

There’s a half back crisis over there currently (particularly with the best number 7s (DCE, SJ, Hunt, Reynolds) all retiring soon.

Aidan Seizer is starting for Wests FFS.