He did the job required when he arrived, but the requirements changed once the club was stabilised and was becoming strong enough to win trophies.

True.

I'm just not sure what your reason is for bringing up Brian Noble. You can't, as has been mentioned, compare the two. My point was that if Wane had been the "Issue" in this instance, i'm certain that IL as a successful businessman, which necessitates man management, would not be waving "bye bye" to Mr Hock. Equally, i'm certain that if Mr Noble had not been doing as required he too would have been sent on a "season loan" or its equivalent.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jl8kM7-Q ... PVt5BeR2hk Looks like all bridges burnt with Wigan. Hope we sign him. Feel sorry for Wigan. I know you all have differing opinions on him but he's the best/ one of the best forwards in the league and you've lost him. You can't even boo him because he can't play against you

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jl8kM7-Q ... PVt5BeR2hk Looks like all bridges burnt with Wigan. Hope we sign him. Feel sorry for Wigan. I know you all have differing opinions on him but he's the best/ one of the best forwards in the league and you've lost him. You can't even boo him because he can't play against you

Bought three unproven players out of their contracts, splunked god knows how much (enough to wipe out last season's profits i'm led to believe) on training facilities and given three hundred and twenty six local players their debuts. On top of getting rid of the club's star forward and allowing older (slower) players to leave without matching replacements.

Lenegan's given SW the reigns, backing, support, foot massages and anything else he wants. No way is this short term. Good or bad as that may be.

Opposition fans have been saying that about Hock for years. Typical was his eye-gouging attempt on Ben Harrison two seasons ago. I admire the Wigan club's handling of this whole issue. It may have taken a while for reality to sink in that this fool will never be satisfied, but I'm glad it has.

I know Gaz isn't the sharpest tool in the box but he doesn't come across very well in that interview at all. I can see this going the same way as the gleeson to hull move and I really wouldn't be suprised to see Gaz fail a drugs test in the next year.

Lenegan is so damning of him in that statement- I hope Gaz enjoys the next few years rotting in the bottom half of the league, we stood by him like no other player gave him a 2nd chance.

I'd rather have a hard working Liam Farrell who has a lot of rugby ability and talented youth in Greg Burke/ Anthony Gelling.

So long Gareth, close the door on the way out!

I think whats more alarming than who is in the right and the wrong is the mass exodus of talent at the same sort of time. You can talk about how long Tommy had been here and how he wanted a change etc. but the numbers of high quality players that have left all around the same time point towards something not being right IMO. It could just be bad luck that all these players have suddenly decided they want out at the same sort of time? When Wane took over and there was all the talk of Sam following Joel to RU Wane went public and said that whilst we cant compete with the money in RU he wanted to create the type of atmosphere at the club that players would not want to leave. It seems like players are wanting to leave more than ever to me. The only real world class players we have now got left are Sam and O'Loughlin and we already know that Sam wont be here for much longer infact id be amazed if he is still here by the end of this season.

When it comes to disputes between a player and a coach the chairman only really has two options - find an amicable solution or get rid of the player. Even if Lenegan wasn't convinced about Wane's abilities (I'm not saying he is or he isn't) it would be pretty damaging to sack him because it suggests a large amount of player power and there's the risk of making the club look like a poor option for a potential coach.
I've little doubt that Lenegan grew impatient with Noble, it became increasingly obvious towards the end of Noble's tenure that Lenegan expected more. Some chairmen would have sacked him and gone for an immediate solution but I suspect IL is smart enough to know that a good coach would be much more willing to take on a job if he knew his position was reasonably secure for the duration of their contract.

You make it sound as if contracts are worth something...

I don't for a second blame Wane for this fiasco but i still can't believe there are people out there who think that Wane should be the head coach at Wigan.

It's worrying how far some fans heads are embedded in the sand when it comes to our head coach and his obvious failings.

Given Hock can't get out of his on his terms, clearly they are.

What failings are these?

Is the guy who told you we've "wasted all last year's profits on training facilities" the same guy who told you that we should all have been informed Hock was going to Widnes before the deal was signed? I wouldn't be surprised.

Perhaps he was the same guy who advised Hock to avoid training and get himself sacked - right on the eve of a new season (you know, when everyone else has spent up). Good call, that one.

PS: Chairmen backing their coaches over players who've brought the club into disrepute time and time again tend not to be an unusual breed.

He will not be playing at nd top superleague sides thats for sure, im sure wigan would sell him to an nrl club though

I'll give you that... lol..

But this is rare instance is probably down to GH and his agents bad handling of the situation. Most people seem to be able to get out of a contract they don't want to be in....

I think Shaun Wane should be head coach.
He was deputy to Mcguire and will have learned a lot from him. To me IL did the right thing and gave him a two year deal with a one year option.
In his first season, despite some mistakes, his team topped the League after 27 games and won the Shield. Not the most prestigious these days but IMO the most difficult to win.
SW's Wigan were the most consistent team in the League and for a period were playing some of the most breathtaking Rugby I've seen for years.
We are now in a situation where we've lost a number of key players who have been difficult to replace, Carmont being the most obvious. Green, Taylor and Smith have to be given a chance and we'll see this season whether they have been good signings or not.
As for GH, when he came back and signed the 5 year deal I always suspected it may end in tears, which it has done.
Just look at the poor lad's face in that Widnes photo. He looks utterly bewildered and totally lost. Not seen the interview but I'm sure he said all the right words. Not a player or man to attract sympathy but I do feel somewhat sorry for him, that photo says an awful lot!
I just wonder who has been advising him.
From IL's statement it reads like he should have received better advice somewhere along the line.
If this has been coming for a while then SW will have his squad sorted and know where each player will be, given that GH is no longer a squad member.
I do think that maybe we are in unchartered territory with his contract. I've never heard of anyone going on a one year loan when there's three and a half years remaining on his contract.
Suppose it goes belly up at Widnes, they can unload him at the end of the season. Would any other club take him on then or is he back with us?
As we all know GH is a still very much a contracted Wigan player.
How it pans out from here will be interesting given his contract status.

He doesn't want to play again hence the statement!

Quote ="Father Ted"I think Shaun Wane should be head coach. He was deputy to Mcguire and will have learned a lot from him. To me IL did the right thing and gave him a two year deal with a one year option. In his first season, despite some mistakes, his team topped the League after 27 games and won the Shield. Not the most prestigious these days but IMO the most difficult to win. SW's Wigan were the most consistent team in the League and for a period were playing some of the most breathtaking Rugby I've seen for years. We are now in a situation where we've lost a number of key players who have been difficult to replace, Carmont being the most obvious. Green, Taylor and Smith have to be given a chance and we'll see this season whether they have been good signings or not. As for GH, when he came back and signed the 5 year deal I always suspected it may end in tears, which it has done. Just look at the poor lad's face in that Widnes photo. He looks utterly bewildered and totally lost. Not seen the interview but I'm sure he said all the right words. Not a player or man to attract sympathy but I do feel somewhat sorry for him, that photo says an awful lot! I just wonder who has been advising him. From IL's statement it reads like he should have received better advice somewhere along the line. If this has been coming for a while then SW will have his squad sorted and know where each player will be, given that GH is no longer a squad member. I do think that maybe we are in unchartered territory with his contract. I've never heard of anyone going on a one year loan when there's three and a half years remaining on his contract. Suppose it goes belly up at Widnes, they can unload him at the end of the season. Would any other club take him on then or is he back with us? As we all know GH is a still very much a contracted Wigan player. How it pans out from here will be interesting given his contract status.'" I know the circumstances are different in terms of how the loan was instigated, but is he not in exactly the same situation as were Smith and Moore, when at Saints, they were both shipped out on 12 month loan deals to various clubs whilst still under long contracts with Saints. I suppose the main difference being that (I assume) either Smith or Moore would have jumped at the chance of being told they were wanted back at Saints. For the moment at least Hock seems to have no desire to play for Wigan again. The whole thing is quite bewildering, naturally as a Widnes fan I am delighted and you wonder what truth, if any, there was in stories of Hock coming to us in 2013 as early as June last year. He seems a little more relaxed on this Youtube video www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jl8kM7-Q ... PVt5BeR2hk

Quote ="Father Ted"I think Shaun Wane should be head coach. He was deputy to Mcguire and will have learned a lot from him. To me IL did the right thing and gave him a two year deal with a one year option. In his first season, despite some mistakes, his team topped the League after 27 games and won the Shield. Not the most prestigious these days but IMO the most difficult to win. SW's Wigan were the most consistent team in the League and for a period were playing some of the most breathtaking Rugby I've seen for years. We are now in a situation where we've lost a number of key players who have been difficult to replace, Carmont being the most obvious. Green, Taylor and Smith have to be given a chance and we'll see this season whether they have been good signings or not. As for GH, when he came back and signed the 5 year deal I always suspected it may end in tears, which it has done. Just look at the poor lad's face in that Widnes photo. He looks utterly bewildered and totally lost. Not seen the interview but I'm sure he said all the right words. Not a player or man to attract sympathy but I do feel somewhat sorry for him, that photo says an awful lot! I just wonder who has been advising him. From IL's statement it reads like he should have received better advice somewhere along the line. If this has been coming for a while then SW will have his squad sorted and know where each player will be, given that GH is no longer a squad member. I do think that maybe we are in unchartered territory with his contract. I've never heard of anyone going on a one year loan when there's three and a half years remaining on his contract. Suppose it goes belly up at Widnes, they can unload him at the end of the season. Would any other club take him on then or is he back with us? As we all know GH is a still very much a contracted Wigan player. How it pans out from here will be interesting given his contract status.'" I know the circumstances are different in terms of how the loan was instigated, but is he not in exactly the same situation as were Smith and Moore, when at Saints, they were both shipped out on 12 month loan deals to various clubs whilst still under long contracts with Saints. I suppose the main difference being that (I assume) either Smith or Moore would have jumped at the chance of being told they were wanted back at Saints. For the moment at least Hock seems to have no desire to play for Wigan again. The whole thing is quite bewildering, naturally as a Widnes fan I am delighted and you wonder what truth, if any, there was in stories of Hock coming to us in 2013 as early as June last year. He seems a little more relaxed on this Youtube video www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jl8kM7-Q ... PVt5BeR2hk

Don't forget he is still a Wigan player! I hope he plays very well for Widnes and helps them to some wins against our main rivals. Under the deal he won't play against Wigan. Under the circumstances dealt to the Wigan club this is a good deal.

And it doesn't seem like Wigan want him here either so if that is the case despite the fact I am all for players being held to contracts would it be possible to challenge Wigan as being unreasonable here? That is Wigan hold him to a contract when they have not intention of letting through the door again? Very different to simply wanting a player to fulfil his contractual obligations.



It's all part of IL's master plan. He can knock spots off our mutual rivals playing for you and destabilises your squad while he does it. Agent Hock it is

Seems to me that Hock's tried to bluff/bully his way out fo the club, IL has called him on it and now the guy's in limbo. Being shipped around to lower league clubs on loan isn't a great way to end your career. I just wonder if any teams would actually want to buy him in view of what IL has come out and said...

I would make 3 points:

1. We don't know what has gone on. There is little point in speculation, though Gareth's body language on the link is that of someone who is gutted to have left.

2. Wigan are seriously weaker without him. If it wasn't the case before (which imo it was) IL really needs to strengthen the squad now.

3. What happens to his CC space? Do Wigan get any relief?

Widnes aren't a lower league club. They're in the same league.

I know, that was in response to the comparison with Noble. But I somehow deleted the quote, I was leaving work. In a hurry. My point is Lenegan's commitment to SW's "vision" is resolute. That can only be good for the club as we lose a host of world class players.

Only if Wane's "vision" is any good and delivers.

The evidence so far suggests IL will let his coaches do their own thing and he judges them at the end of their contracts. So I wouldn't put it as strongly as IL being resolutely committed to anything. I don't think IL is after Jam tomorrow either. He expects success sooner rather than later.