With Rads and Hampo at the club he cant ask for anything more..i hope there working with him

Don't we all. His enthusiasm and commitment has never been in doubt but he plays in a very important position and it's one where being good on attack can't make up for being not so good on defence.

Dave

10 years ago i'd have agreed fully with that statement, these days however I think the game has changed and reduced the defensive reliance on the fullback whilst requiring far more in attack than previously (and I mean in making metres and creative play rather than pure try scoring).

Having a FB who can chip into attack like a 3rd halfback creates a lot of very interesting tactical options going forwards.

As a neutral that was a
pretty good game last night, both still a bit rusty but plenty of good performances on show

Wigans defence was impressive , very well organised and to keep Warrington out for over an hour after that early try was conceded was a great effort

thought the Wigan pack were solid , they'll give sides plenty of trouble up front if they stay as solid as that and when Sam Tompkins got some possession he was a real threat -

saying that Warrington showed some very good touches , you can see why a lot of folk reckon they'll be up there - lots of depth in that squad

Looking forward to the league game in 3 weeks

What about Feka??

I was worried about him losing alot of weight, which could mean him losing go forward, how did he go on agianst a decent sized pack? I was listening to the two clowns, and they mentioned him getting driven back a couple of times, but with the standard of that commentry he could have been kicking a conversion for all I know

He never got driven back at all imo. He made decent yards and looked much more capable of making more runs. The most impressive part of his game though was in defence. He looks miles more mobile and was able to get about the field much better. I remember in the 2nd half his semi final nemesis Monaghan picked him out close to our line. Feka managed to get back into the line, turn and pick Monaghan out. He got him in a ball and all tackle and stole it from him only for the ref to say there was more then one man in the tackle(which was rubbish).

I'm very happy with his 2 pre season preformences.

I am not sure what you mean by reduced the defensive reliance on the full back but that isn't the problem. It's just doing the basics right like being safe under bombs, positional play and fielding kicks. He was weak in these areas last season. He also manged to injure himself a couple of times due to mistiming tackles so while he looks the most committed player on the park at times it can all be a bit random if you get my drift.

If Phelps is deemed by opposition coaches weak under the bomb they will adopt that tactic all night so he has got to be able to do the basics of a full backs job right. I still can't forget how he was letting the ball roll dead in the game against Wakey last season only for the opposition player to put his hand through his legs to touch the ball down for a try. It's defensive lapses like that and not dealing with kicks that can cost games and so he needs to sort it out or I think MM will identify the full back spot as one the team needs to improve on to take the steps necessary to be in finals and getting no further.

In the past with Hampson and Radlinski we had full backs who made it a waste of time to put a bomb up and teams just stopped doing it to a large extent so it reduced their attacking options. A rock solid full back can really help stifle the oppositions attack and I don't think that has changed.

Dave

Personally I think Phelps will need to improve enormously for us to offer him a new contract at the end of this season.

I agree that he's a willing lad, and that he adds sparkle on attack. But I feel that at some point we'll start looking at specialists for our specialist positions. I hope Phelps cements himself into the role, because everyone seems to like him - but if he can't add the extra 50% to his game (and that's how much I think he needs, if our team is to be where we all want it to be), then I suspect that his days will be numbered as we approach 2011.

I think Phelps will develope into a specialist fullback but wheather that'll be at Wigan i'm not sure. It's not because i don't think he's good enough but just with the quota's I reckon he might have a tough job to keep getting new contracts.

His real hope must be that Bailey and Carmont leave at the end of 2010.

I think he's main worry is the development of Josh Vievers in the reserves.

If he has a very good season along with occaisional call-ups to the first team in 2010, it be a might a no-brainer.

I agree but am wary of saying anything too negative about such a popular player



I think as others have posted the fact he is a quota player and we have a young player who seems to be close to challenging for his spot could seal his fate. I think the only way he can prevent these things from forcing him out of the club is by becoming a very good full back in the space of the 2010 season but if he doesn't improve his game as discussed I'd be surprised if he got a new deal.

I suppose he could get a new contract as a utility back and we know IL likes him because he puts the effort in but as a specialist full back he's on thin ice IMO.

Most people have been looking for improvements in 2010 from Riddell, Roberts and Feka but Phelps is in that camp as well IMO but he has slipped under the radar due IMO to the fact it isn't lack of effort that was his problem whereas the others have been criticised for their attitude to fitness or how they played.

Dave

Fair enough but who is this young player you speak of who's challenging for his spot? I don't see anyone who is on the verge of breaking through in that position.

The quota issue like you say is very problematic with Phelps. You can't waste a quota spot on a utility player so it may end up sealing his fate. I do rate him very highly though and think in time he will go on to improve his defensive work and become a very good fullback, certainly one of the best in Super League. Do Wigan have the patience to wait for that to happen? And are they willing to sacrifice a potential quota signing in the process? Probably not in my opinion.

I don't get where all this talk keeps coming from about Phelps position being in threat. He was one of our best players in the 2nd half of last year yet on the back of a couple of iffy friendly appearences that not everybody has seen he should be under pressure.

I can understand his long term future being questioned but not his place in the team in the short term.

I think it's just that the 2010/2011 close season is being seen as a watershed. A number of contracts will be ending, which are unlikely to be renewed given the ages of the players involved. IL and MM may have a whole batch of new players they want to and actually can (for a change) sign. There is also the quota issue - this won't go away, and, like it nor not, it's bound to affect the thinking where Cameron Phelps is concerned.

Ironically, one thing that may assist him rather than hinder him is the presence of Josh Vievers. This is the young full back everyone's talking about. But he's still young. It may be that if, in 2011, Wigan have high hopes for him but decide that he's not quite ready, they could opt to keep Phelps on again for another year, rather than go out and buy a big name.

I think Dave is absolutely right about the work ethic. Phelps has worked hard for us, but in a team where (up until this season, hopefully) we've had to suffer several first teamers who did minimum work, we almost became thankful for that rather than regarded it as the least a professional player should offer.

When you consider what a full back should actually do at the highest level - and good grief, we at Wigan ought to know that better than anyone with the quality full backs we've had over the years - you've got to ask yourself "is Phelps the man?" IL strikes me as having a genuine plan to return Wigan to the top. It's been longer drawn out than many fans would like, but maybe we're now starting to see the fruits. I'm sure a time will come soon when players who are 'okay' or 'willing lads' or who 'always try hard' will be overlooked for players who are the real deal.

Can Phelpsy be the real deal? Time will tell, but as I said before, I think he's really got to improve. He's got to make himself the automatic go-to man for the number 1 shirt, and not just because there's nobody else.

Josh Vievers (I am going off what others have said here as I have not seen him play).



It depends IMO if we have any real ambition to recruit real quality overseas players and how many slots there are available when his contract is up. If IL won't pay the going rate for class players we won't be getting any!

Our quota players are Riddell, Bailey, Phelps, Feka and Roberts. Carmont doesn't count as he has a Samoan passport, I think TL is also none quota and Richards is "Irish". Bailey, TL and Richards are (I think) classed as federation trained so in theory I think that means we could sign all the out of contract players up again.

Riddell and Roberts are contracted beyond 2010 so if we are to recruit any overseas players then one or more of Bailey, Phelps or Feka must leave. If Feka's weight loss leads to an effective season from him I can't see IL not giving him a new deal so it's down to Bailey and/or Phelps to make way for one or two overseas star players. We ought to be able to fit two such players under the cap for 2011 so if what I say above is correct about who is on quota etc I can't see either of them staying if we do have real ambition to recruit top class overseas players because despite the pair of them having a really good attitude they are simply not International class and that is what we ought to be after in 2011.

Dave

I still stand by what I said in that I don't understand why his short term place in the side(i.e at least the first 5 or 6 games this season) is being questioned. He's our best option and has earned his place there in that short term with his preformences last year.

Longer term i'm as unsure of his place at Wigan as the next man.

Really enjoyed the game last night and it has got me looking forward to the season. Its been a long off season and to be honest i wasnt really that bothered. But seeing Wigan look reasonable, combined with my hate for anything to do with Warrington got me back into it.

Not too get over excited like most people do but i have to say the positives outweigh the negatives.

* Roberts looks like he has been issued with a new pair of legs, speed of the mark was excellent and he took his try brilliantly. Lets hope he can cause issues for defenders all season!
* Deacon looks fresh when he came on, and linked up well inside the centres/second rowers. Also noted his vocal presence on the field, I heard him clearly on a few times “win the wrestle”
* Our forwards seemed a little over powered going forward, but strong in defence which was very pleasing.

Looking forward to the season! (mostly the away days though)

i work with a wire fan who went (I didn't) his take on it was that Wigan were very solid in defence if unspectacular going forward. He thought we still look light up front. Eamonn and HH got a good seeing to on a number of hit ups apparently. Feka still heavy and only effective for 8/10 mins, Fielden scared of mixing it with big boys. Sam constant threat all night.

I trust this bloke, he isn't your usual wire bullpooper.

i like the strong defence thing though. back to the rip and tear of mike greg wouldnt hurt at all.

We were more spectacular then Wire going forward in terms of skill but they made more metres up the middle. I wouldn't say O'Carroll and Hansen got hammered but especially O'Carroll made very little ground.

Feka is still heavy but what did your mate expect! he surely didn't think he'd come along and see Feka standing there weighing about 6stone. He's lost about the right amoung of weight for me to play more minutes, be more mobile in defence and attack yet not lost too much impact.

Fielden was a constant target for the Wire defence but kept taking it in and Wire players rushing out of the line at him only leaves holes elsewhere imo.

Tomkins got better as the night went on and looked head and shoulders the best halfback on the park. He linked up very well with Deacon which was encouraging.

The defence was very good and they really got stuck in.

Regardless of peoples negative opinion of our pack - we still won last night and last year beat teams such as Leeds, Wire and Saints who on paper all have a better pack than ours. Our packs potential and ability always come into question on here . I hear many people blaming the pack when Wigan lose however you could argue that the likes of Carvell and Morley consistently punch holes in defence but it does not produce wins all the time. Fielden has lost his shine, Coley (who takes a lot of stick on here) is nothing outstanding but is solid and gets through a lot of work, Feka is an impact prop etc however as a unit they work pretty well for Wigan. Now all of them are fighting for places with O'Carroll and other youngsters hot on their heels, not to mention all of them are in the shop window for either Wigan or other teams next year so we should see an overall improvement in all of their games.

Cracking post mate and something i've been feeling for a long time. There are a few other team's packs might have 1 (2 at a stretch) individuals that I feel would be an improvement over what we have, but as a unit of players I think our pack matches any in the league when it's not dropping the ball

Lost track of the amount of times i've rewatched highlights of our losses now, and i've still not found one that was due to the pack not providing enough go forward. I'll say it again, bulk of our games lost were due to giving away too many penalties and errors either defusing our own attack or putting us under repeat pressure in defence, combined with a poor medium to long range kicking game not delivering what we needed to relieve the pressure.

I totally agree about the ball retention and penalties issue. In the 2 friendlies Lockers, Coley, Mossop, Prescott , Fielden and O'Carroll (I think O'Carroll anyway!) have all either lost the ball or been penalised and this is what costs us. Sometimes its just bloody hard luck, other times its stupid errors but either way they need to reduce them.
I once very bravely asked one of our props (who tops the list for dropped balls and probably penalties ) what was up with his hands

. He admitted that it was about finding the right balance of running in as hard as possible but keeping hold of the ball and as first receiver the last thing you need is to drop it on the first play. He also defended himself and his fellow props by saying people want more aggression from our pack but most of them are already topping the penalty chart and he felt that again it was a hard balance to strike.
That said an improvement in this area is a must.

Our pack makes too many handling errors but besides that it's pretty solid.

I always worry about the pack in these early months because I don't really think the heavy pitches suit us. We've got a mobile pack that suits playing on dry pitches and thats why I don't think it's a conincidence when our form picks up after a couple of months.

It's alot of expectation to put on one young player but I think Mossop will help us bigtime early doors. He's a big lad and does the job of a 5th prop in that second row just getting through stacks of work. He really could just help us nick a couple of extra yards here and there which could prove to be very important.

Overall though if we can keep the errors down early on this season we'll go ok.

quite surprised at some of the comments about the Wigan packs' performance the other night, personally thought they went ok and got better as it went on , some superb organisation defensively , very smart work

Wigan will give teams plenty to think about up front and around the ruck

Work in progress perhaps but improving nicely

Agree about us getting better upfront as the game went on. We struggled for yards early doors but that improved as the game wore on and we seemed to be able to limit Wire's yards more aswell.

Bar the handling errors it was an impressive display from Wigan the other night.