And just to prove my point.

He saved a try on the previous play, because he had to come in as there was a two to one overlap had he not. Had his team mates shifted across as they should have done, they would have stopped the next one too. But to say he made a mistake in making a ball and all tackle to stop a try is one of the funniest things I've read in a long time on here, and lets face it there's loads of competition on that score.

So basically you are suggesting Goulding should have allowed them to score rather than make the tackle as he clearly knew they would score on the next play?

The notion that Goulding should not come in field to make the tackle is simply idiotic. Rather than blame Goulding why not consider the other 12 players that failed to number up and cover the place left by him in the defensive line?

Goulding by making the tackle stopped them scoring nearer the sticks and also ensured that the Kiwi's had to come up with a further play to score, which could have, and in my opinion did go wrong via a forward pass. Had the refs been right the forward pass would have been awarded the try would not stand and Goulding saves the try. As it was the refs got it wrong and the try stood.

Don,t think england display was a good one need to improve if we gunna win against png and the aussies

I blame James Graham, he was captain after all and therefore should take full responsibility for the team performance AND having an awful accent live on BBC and showing the country up.

listening to him speak almost made me spew my boiled egg on toast back up. er ye yerno erm i think erm yerno.

Seriously, the BBC have the highlights. Watch the first try again: It was not Gouldings fault.

Shenton lets Fien pass to an onrushing Pritchard, who then gets on his outside shoulder - is past him, Shenton and Brown are out of the equation.

Goulding comes in, collars Pritchard and brings him down. Goulding and Fielden become markers. Three players move to their right to cover the stacked numbers on the Kiwi's left: Brown, Burgess and Shenton.

Fien dummy half, passes to Leuluai who cuts the pass (forward) to Sau, past all of three including a ballwatching Shenton, try.

Goulding couldn't have done any better in the situation. Plus you don't see many wingers bring Pritchard down like that anyway.

If Shenton hadn't made 2 decent breaks, he and Atkins would have been the scapegoats today imo.

I was very impressed to see him complete that tackle, i doubt many other wingers in the world would have completed that. Still he should not have bothered according to Saintsfan.

news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 121138.stm fast forward to 2 mins 30 seconds. I know who i think cost England the try.

news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 121138.stm fast forward to 2 mins 30 seconds. I know who i think cost England the try.

i loved it hahaha, i don't know why i've never heard him speak before! i allways assumed as he's from maghull (not actually liverpool) he wouldn't have a scouse accent.
brilliant, my new favourite, awesome choice for captain

You do realise confusing the poor dears with facts is tantamount to abuse? Please stop it, it really isn't fair on them.

How Goulging can get blamed for that is beyond belief.

I would love to see a response from Saintsfan to attempt to justify his/her opinion.

I know his defence has been solid at Wigan, I personally didn't expect it to translate into international. You can't imagine how relieved I was when Vatuvai was injured.

However, he seriously impressed me with how strong in defence he was, he has really translated that aspect of his game to internationals, as with his ability to consistently escape the markers on the scoot for good yards.

The sad fact is our centres don't know how to pass, so Goulding will never look good in attack. I think he was passed to once, on a stupid last tackle scoot from Joel I think, where it was shifted to him standing still and he had to get rid with a grubber.

I completely agree. Shenton on the whole was poor and because of one decent break, where he just ran into open space, he did nothing and people seem to just overlook how bad he was. In the first half his defence and positioning were awful. In the 2nd he got loads of ball and rarely threatened, bar the one break, but he is far too greedy and never looked to pass to his winger. Our centres were very weak and were often saved by our wingers, both Goulding and Briscoe, who were very solid under pressure and were big plus points in the backs for me.

it shows Wire have some good players as they make Atkins look good every week.

Until we start producing athletes in our code we will never ever compete with the Kiwi's/Aussies.

Sometimes we get athletes.
Sometimes we get players with brains.
Or with skill.
For some reason here, we never get these things at the same time.

This first try wasn't Goulding's fault.

Even if it was... Does it really matter? They battered us regardless of that try.

Atkins in English terms is considered to be an athlete which when you look at what the Aussies and Kiwi's have in the same position is actually embarrassing.

We have not produced an international class athlete since Hanley/Offiah, although maybe Burgess is the next one along with Sam, but it simply is not good enough and that is both a failure of the system and society for enabling young men to have such a poor work ethic.

I'd give Tomkins the captaincy now. "there you go son, have that for ten years"

I didn't think Sam looked 100% fit today despite them saying he'd passed a fitness test.
A week until the Aussie game and start him at full back.

Atkins looked poor then didn't play 2nd half due to an injury.
Anyone heard how his injury is?

Clubby in for Atkins next week

Thank God, we will smash them now!

I'd agree with that, he came inside and did a ball and all one on one tackle with there lad (number 17?) as he was making decent ground then had a 2nd row and his centre outside him to slide over after he'd completed the tackle, isn't that the whole point of a sliding defence?

Personally I thought Goulding had a very good game, took the ball up well, certainly as has been mentioned saved a try though obviously then out of position for the forward pass that was given moments later. Briscoe as much as it pains me has still not improved his positiional wing play and didn't look for work enough(he didn't get the ball in one attacking play mind either)
The rest of your guys I thought lockers was not at the races & below par (but far from the worst forward) tompkins was a bit of a let down too (didn't seem to have the normal zing) & could do with learning how to kick properly. Tomkins Snr didn't have any impact on the game but will be in the 17 again for sure, maybe he'll get more game time?

because you come on wigan board trying to blame wigan players for england getting beat .You sound like a bitter saints fan thats why i put that you idiot