Based on what?
Your opinion?
Have you got some kind of evidence that shows we are light years behind other clubs in this department?
Could you explain were these "VAST" areas of neglect that the coaching set-up have created?
Or again, is that just Your Opinion?

I will say it again!

Can't the Nobby out Brigade just accept that he's done a Good Job (Not Great if you don't think so!), Thank Him for it and get on with the games coming up?
Rather than take every opportunity & twist every scenario into a Nobby must go situation!

If anyone dares praise or give BN a touch of credit for anything the Noble Doubters construe this as some kind of signal that we all want him to get 3 more years.
It Isn't, it's just a recognition of what on the Whole, has been a job done well And by an Honourable bloke doing the job to the best of his abilities in what have been at times very difficult circumstances.

If/When he leaves the club it will be in a Whole lot better state than when he came, how much is down to him is debatable but there is no doubt he has had a substantial impact into it all.
It will be Typical Wigan Fans if we Lynch him for things he hasn't done rather than focussing on what he has!

But it's not all one-way, you know.

There are several posters on here who are already using the fact that we've reached another GF semi as apparent proof that IL has got it wrong and that Nobby should stay.

Regardless of this season's general form, that is a nonsensical stance to take when you consider that we've reached four other semis under the Nobster and have flunked them all badly.

The proof of that pudding will only come if we win the GF, and even then I won't be convinced that Nobby is the man to take us forward, though I concede that if we do win it and then replace him with someone of low stature, it will be very difficult to defend IL's decision.

But as fans you can only comment on the form you see the team display. And to be honest, it's been mentioned until it's become exhausting how many basic things Wigan generally get wrong, without us even starting to discuss their lack of sophisticated tactics, their poor fitness, their poor conditioning, their lack of motivation, their mental weakness, etc.

Granted, these things haven't been on show much in the last couple of weeks, but you can't deny that there have been more matches than there haven't where this has been a problem.

To be honest, I find this end-of-season velocity business quite baffling. I refuse to accept that Nobby plans it that way, though it's undoubtedly saved his bacon in the past. But imagine how much more fun it would be if we finished in the top 4 and had a much easier run-in to the GF. Wouldn't it be great, just once, not to have to play most of the eliminator rounds away, wouldn't it be great not to be tired, not to be facing an opponent who's just had a fortnight's rest?

I, for one, don't deny that Nobby has stabilised the club and made us into contenders again. But now I want someone who's going to take us all the way.

Both sides of the argument are valid IMHO.

Noble defenders - How can we let him go if we win SL?

Good question. It would seem harsh to release him should we win SL. We must be crazy to release him - until you look at the league, the inconsistent performances, the squad (albeit this [imay[/i not be all BN's fault). Semi final appearences whilst may look impressive, what does it mean history wise? Jack all. History remembers champions not semi final teams.

Noble atttackers (if you will) - Whether we win SL or not he has to go.

Harsh but very fair IMHO. Form, league finishes and scandals (Gaz Hock) are taking their toll. Well done and we will always be grateful to you Brian for steering us to the right end of the table from staring relegation in the face but you've taken us as far as you can.

It makes for an interesting debate, certainly not where it divulges into personal insults, as has already been demonstrated.

What i would like is a list of these players that Noble has been forced to play and a reason why he was forced to play them and also id like to know who forced him to play them.

To say we have come so far in the play offs despite him not because of him is the most rediculous thing ive ever heard. It is fact that Nobles teams always hit peak form at the end of the season and this year is no different to any other year. He did it at Bradford and hes done it every year at Wigan. It is more proof that many of the Anti-Noble gang simply cannot give the guy credit where it is due.

I have been saying the same since he came to Wigan. You will never convince some on here of that fact.

Seems like they would sooner believe myths such as 'Noble has been forced to play players he had no intention of playing'

Correct

Correct, no matter how many times I have corrected certain posters on here by giving the facts that certain players have actually played more games than other players even before injuries they still won't have any of it. Stuborn and thick come to mind.

I am by no means pro or anti Noble as I do think it's his time to go if we fail to get to the final, I also feel Noble has done very well with such a limited squad compared to other teams. What I can't understand is the attitude of some Wigan fans suggesting that Noble is only playing certain players just because of injuries, don't get me wrong but isn't it the same at other clubs aswell? Where is Kalum Watkins now at Leeds after the start of the season when Senior wasn't playing? I don't see Leeds fans giving BM grief because he has chosen when to play certain players of his like Noble has. Certain players were promised x amount of game time and let's be honest none of us here expected Sam to be starting the majority of the games before the season started, we all expected him to be starting from the bench and he got that chance even with Smith playing, repeating again he even started more games than Smith which none of us expected before the season but Noble gave him that chance.

Which makes it all the more bloody frustrating that we always seem to give ourselves just too much to do because of some of the dross served up earlier in the season. I've said before we're the best of the rest after Stains and the Whinos, but we have to drag our s from 4th or 6th to prove it and are knackered by the time we get to the week before the GF.

Imagine what we might do if we could have our end of season run from a position of strength - this year that would have been top 4 given the way the play-offs works, but we couldn't even do that this season - arrrrrggggggghhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!

i think noble has steadied the ship but wigan want someone to take them to another level.i dont have anything nasty or aggresive to say about him like some people.replacing noble at the end of the season feels right .ian lenigan will do what he feels is right ,he wont listen to rugby league forums to make his mind up ,he,ll make a decision based on the good of the club.

Given the nature of the play offs this season (Not that I am agreing with the new set up BTW) , would finishing 3rd or 4th have been any better?

1 x game away against the Top 2 - being battered & Bruised and then a game at home against a Team that's played a, in theory, Lesser team the week before?

Or a Home game against a Lesser team and then an away game against a 3rd 4th placed team who were knocked from pillar to post week before.

I know I'm glad which one we got!



Now I'm not too sure if you meant previous seasons but this year I think we look anything But Knackered!

Coming on here talking Sense!

Who do you think You are?

Jukesays

You have hit the nail on the head, but I dont expect the Anti Noble brigade to give you credit for that. Some will prefer to give IL credit for everything and others will just disappear from the thread as they normally do.

is it me or do some people get worked up when they start talking about brian noble,he is like marmite when wigan fans are concerned

The chance of getting yourself the week off and a home semi-final means 3rd or 4th is considerably better than being outside the top 4. I actually think the players put in less than 100% at Shuddersfield because they saw an easier route from 6th than 5th given the way results went earlier that weekend.

I can actually see us going to Stains on Saturday and winning - mainly because they are out of form and lets just say there's "trouble at mill" there. If we don't beat them on Saturday, we never will.

I thought that the last time we played em

You want evidence? Here's a few points then...


1. Fat/unfit players/discipline. Standards have slipped since the glory days. Tuigamala was forced to get the weight off when he came to Wigan and was a far bigger name than Feka and Riddell. The intensity of the last few rounds have brought fitness standards up but in the first half at least of the season quite a few of our players were off the pace. Is there anyone out there who will try to make a case for Wigan having a leading set-up in terms of fitness and conditioning? We used to. A lot of Wigan's success in the glory days of the 80s and 90s was down to the Wigan system, it was that back room set up and demanding coaching and the relentless quest for excellence that took players like Billy McGinty and made him a top class player, which plucked Neil Cowie from obscurity at Rochdale and turned him into one of the top props in the country. And then we have the situation with Hock....

2. Playing overseas players at the expense of home-grown players - why persist with Smith for as long as he did when it was clear that the lad has serious problems (not just with his defence, I felt sorry for him when I saw him being interviewed after a game, I am not sure that he should be exposed to the pressure of professional sport), why play Bailey when we have a host of upcoming players... which brings me on to the next point...

3. Failure to bring young players into the first team/properly develop them. Tompkins is in the dream team yet still qualified as a rookie this season. Why didn't he get more game time last season? Why are we losing a player to an NRL side who they think is good enough to play for them but we have only seen in a handful of games this season. And as for the way Ainscough has been handled... how many teams would drop their leading try scorer in the way we did.... only to then see his replacement Roberts display similar defensive frailties but less attacking prowess...

4. Tactics - did we practice any set plays in the off season (come to think of it, what did the squad do in the off season?) we still lack ideas at times
but for a big part of the season the team have been playing a boring brand of sterile 1 man rugby

But most of all I'm fed up with attending games in the first half of a season and seeing a Wigan side embarrass itself and disgrace the famous cherry and white shirt with gutless and shambolic performances by a disorganised and badly prepared team.

I'm not saying Noble has got everything wrong, far from it. For example, he persisted with Phelps (when I admit I was calling for Phelps to be dropped) and was proved right about that and has overseen Phelps development from a very ordinary player to a FB I would not swap for his illustrious (but very slow) opposite number on Saturday. Noble is a good coach (at least in the final few weeks of a season) with a good track record. But for whatever reason (and it may not be his fault) I just don't think things have worked well enough in a number of areas. We aren't where we are in terms of the team because he planned to pick this team or even because he cleverly adapted the side as the season progressed, its simply by happy accident.

Not for Hudds Or HKR it wasn't!

I could pick so many holes in your arguments it's untrue!

To be honest I have yet to see anything other than YOUR opinions, which of course your entitiled too, but to dress them up as facts when they are clearly Not.

I'm not here to change your opinion, it's obvious you've made your mind up! But don't try to justify them by making half truth statements and turning opinion into Fact when they aren't.

Nobby is not without fault, but then we all are.


I am not going to convince the Nobby doubters that he is a good coach, so I won't bother.

What I will say is this.

The SL competition is all about the last 4 weeks. This year is once again proving that. Like it or not, the start of the season counts for zip.

Nobby has coached us to Semi Finals for the last 3 seasons. IMO with the squads that we have had, that is about as good as we could have hoped for.

This season we have a very real chance of making the GF. Despite the much cited "poor start" , we are 80 mins away from ensuring the poor start is irrelevant.

This is a fact, not an opinion.

And for some it's the other way round, which is at least as questionable an attitude, if not more so given that it's Noble who has overall responsibility for conditioning, fitness, tactics, motivation, match preparation, pre-season, etc - all areas where we've been poor for most of the season.

Or are these points going to be continually ignored by those who lump all the "anti-Noble" brigade under one banner as being stubborn, thick, cowardly, etc?

I suppose we will only be able to disect the season a week on Sunday.
By then we will be able to compare ourselves with Saints & Leeds's season.

However, lets look at Huddersfield's season.

Pretty consistent throughout the first 4/5th's of the 2009 season, culminating in a 3rd Position, reached a Challenge Cup Final and looking strong contenders for a major trophy.

Froze in the Challenge Cup Final, never recovered and limped out of the playoffs without so much as a whimper.


Compare this to Wigan's 'stop/start' season, poor beginning as usual. Decent Cup run, looking our best chance of a trophy, reached the Challenge Cup Semi Final but froze in a disastrous 20 minute spell. Then recovered some form in the last quarter of the season, ended up in 6th Position, won 2 playoff games and are 80 minutes from Old Trafford.

If we win to get to OT, has our season been better than Huddersfields?
If we lose, has our season been better than Huddersfields?

My main gripe with Nobby are his and the teams attitude to games earlier in the season.

For me theres too many lacklustre cant be d performances throughout the season had we turned up to 3 or 4 more games we would have 6-8 points and finished in the top 4 quite comfortably. Looking back we played both Cas and Wakey at home in the first few games and we were terrible. Had we just turned up those days im confident we would have won. Another one that stands out is Celtic away. Terrible.

This simply has to change if we want to challenge for SL honours.

This is exactly the point. If we'd won several games that we were expected to win, we'd have been in the top 4. If we'd killed off several teams that we had on the rack, instead of letting them back in, we could have been in the top 2.

Yet this has been the pattern for three years under Nobby. Surey it's evident that we need to step things up a little bit.

This is our main problem we cant do this on sat cause they will snap it up straight away