I'll be amazed if we finish anywhere below last years position, I quite fancy us top 2 if Im honest.

Good points very well made..

No props, no pots.

I have a sneaking feeling we'll be back to form this year. The way we played against Leigh filled me with optimism that the problem areas were being addressed. The props ran it in hard, the kicking game from both Sams was a big improvement on last year and, along with the return of Escare who we saw last season has a more than useful kicking game, that should only improve as the season progresses and combinations settle.

The distribution from dummy half was also much improved with Tommy at 9. In fact I was surprised just how much quicker it was. Given that TL also brings a running game to the position, something we haven't had in quite a while, coupled with the guile of Ganson, I feel that we will have more options and creativity from Hooker.

One or two players look like they've upped their game. Navarette in particular looks to have taken several steps forward and, along with the terrific showing from Hamlin and the return to full fitness of Clubb and Flower, there should be genuine competition for places in the front row.

Last but not least we won without SOL! Only a pre season friendly maybe, but one giant leap for mankind nonetheless! Haha

I may be getting confused here but to my mind I always felt Sarginson looked like he’d be a better fit over on the right. The reason being that he seems to love that step back to the right, which over on the left kept taking him away from his winger (which was hugely frustrating).

On that right side if he straightens and then goes right that should see him being able to link with his winger on far more occasions. If the space becomes tight then as is the norm, the winger comes inside to give his centre an option.

Sarge needs to watch endless clips of George Carmont and see what a truly great winger does and doesn't do.

I guarantee I will be tapping at this keyboard in 2 months time frustrated at the lack of passes our winger gets - mark my words!

This is so pessimistic. Wigan have addressed the issues with rearranging positioning, bringing in a kicking coach etc, this is evidence based, from this I have hope. What more do you want at this stage? For one I'm pleased we've addressed issues. Like I said, big season for Wane. If he doesn't perform as a head coach it's possible it could be his last.

Debatable. When a team is totally lead around the field by an 'off the cuff' creative half, the team becomes dependent on their creativity to make things happen, when they're injured and replace the whole team looks completely different as they've been dependent on that one player, the old school 7.

Now with structures, a team and the halves play to to the structure meaning there's less impact on losing a star half.

A good argument case study would be Castleford with Rangi v Cas without Rangi. They were often dependent on flashes of his individual skill and flair to breakdown the defence. Now they play much more structured and are a far better team.

It's not pessimistic, it's waiting for [uevidence[/u that things are actually going to change on the field. Given the season hasn't even started yet we don't know if the changes being made will actually address the issues - if not done correctly they could make things worse.

Like I said (on more than one occasion) no one knows how things will pan out. I hope we sort things out and win every game and every trophy on offer but I'm not going to be a happy clapper or doom monger at this stage.

The split half’s thing is an interesting one and not as clear cut as many seem to think. It only really applies when the PTM is somewhere near the middle of the pitch, in that situation having a half back on each side gives the team an option of which way to go and means the defence is unsure of which way the ball goes. If the PTB is on either edge then the half’s line up together just as they did in 1985. In reality it’s not too much different to how it’s always been.

Are you not happy Wigan have been proactive to address the problems? What more can they possibly do at this stage?

More to the point the FB is now the second receiver who links up outside (on either left or right side) outside of the half back.

I think the positional names throw people off. Really they should be called something like:

FB= Deep lying second receiver
Winger= still pretty apt
centres=outside edges (only in union do they play in the centre)
Prop/13=Middles (props hardly prop up the scrum anymore)
Hooker=dummy half (do they ever hook for the ball?)
SR=Edges (a scrum is made up of whoever, they don't specifically need to be in the SR of a scrum)
scrum half/stand off=left and right halfback

something like that.

Ah I see we're getting to the straw man part of the discussion. Where have I said I wasn't happy? I've simply identified a number of issues, I and a number of other fans saw as problems on the field last season and things that happened during the off season. Let's see if Wane has sorted them out.

You're clearly unhappy to list several issues you have.

And as I replied, all your issues have been addressed in pre-season. I don't see what else you'd want or expect at this stage. I'm happy issues have been addressed. At this stage all Wigan and Wane can do is be proactive, to identity then address the issues which they have.

You're happy issues have been addressed without knowing if the issues have actually been addressed.

I'll wait to see a number of games (probably 10 or so) before deciding.

I can't see that there's any real argument with this.

I've been accused of being a happy-clapper in the past, but I wasn't in that category at the end of last year. We are all fans, and we will attend games loyally, but we do have a right to be critical if things are going sideways, and that certainly was the impression many of us were left in at the end of 2017. More to the point, while we can't possibly know which issues have and haven't been addressed in training, there's no denying that it's the same team who messed up so badly last year, and the same coaching staff.

I don't think it's an OTT reaction to reserve judgement until we've got a few wins on the board.

WANE OUT!!!! Just thought i would get that one in early..

It does seem people are going overboard with the performance at Leigh,lets be fair we won't know if the issues have been addressed for a good while yetis I'll join you in waiting a good few games and see how things are then, not off the back of a friendly.

And how is that any different from what anyone else us saying? In 10 games time we'll all have a clearer picture of whether they've been addressed in full, part or not at all. It doesn't take some kind of special ability to work that one out. It'll be there for all to see Not really sure what the point is you're making. I'll tell you at the end of the season if we've won any trophies or not. I'm guessing you won't need me to tell you though.

I fully agree we need to wait until at least a couple of months in to the season to see which problems have and haven’t been addressed but all clubs could make a list of 4 or 5 things that need attention. Even if we’re going well in mid season we could still probably list a number of things that could be improved.

It’s all on attitude, effort and spirit for me. We have the talent in the side to win things but the players looked bored and disinterested last year at times. The main thing I took from the Leigh game was that the spirit looked excellent and the players looked happy to be back out there.

Some posters here are not reading anything into the result of a friendly, because we won... If we had lost MELTDOWN!!!

Quote ="NickyKiss"I may be getting confused here but to my mind I always felt Sarginson looked like he’d be a better fit over on the right. The reason being that he seems to love that step back to the right, which over on the left kept taking him away from his winger (which was hugely frustrating). On that right side if he straightens and then goes right that should see him being able to link with his winger on far more occasions. If the space becomes tight then as is the norm, the winger comes inside to give his centre an option.'" Sarginson's left foot step whist playing at right centre would surely result in him stepping into touch would it not, Or he would surely run his winger out of his space? Big year for Shaun Wane coming up,especially after Radlinski reckons that they are SL's highest salary capped spending club https://www.wigantoday.net/sport/rugby- ... -1-8949792

Quote ="NickyKiss"I may be getting confused here but to my mind I always felt Sarginson looked like he’d be a better fit over on the right. The reason being that he seems to love that step back to the right, which over on the left kept taking him away from his winger (which was hugely frustrating). On that right side if he straightens and then goes right that should see him being able to link with his winger on far more occasions. If the space becomes tight then as is the norm, the winger comes inside to give his centre an option.'" Sarginson's left foot step whist playing at right centre would surely result in him stepping into touch would it not, Or he would surely run his winger out of his space? Big year for Shaun Wane coming up,especially after Radlinski reckons that they are SL's highest salary capped spending club https://www.wigantoday.net/sport/rugby- ... -1-8949792

Quote ="The Chin's Back"Sarginson's left foot step whist playing at right centre would surely result in him stepping into touch would it not, Or he would surely run his winger out of his space? Big year for Shaun Wane coming up,especially after Radlinski reckons that they are SL's highest salary capped spending club https://www.wigantoday.net/sport/rugby- ... -1-8949792'" This is my worry - his step would move him closer to touch and leave less space for Davies. Hopefully he can overcome his instincts and give Davies the option of both outside and inside runs.

Quote ="The Chin's Back"Sarginson's left foot step whist playing at right centre would surely result in him stepping into touch would it not, Or he would surely run his winger out of his space? Big year for Shaun Wane coming up,especially after Radlinski reckons that they are SL's highest salary capped spending club https://www.wigantoday.net/sport/rugby- ... -1-8949792'" This is my worry - his step would move him closer to touch and leave less space for Davies. Hopefully he can overcome his instincts and give Davies the option of both outside and inside runs.

Quote ="The Chin's Back"Sarginson's left foot step whist playing at right centre would surely result in him stepping into touch would it not, Or he would surely run his winger out of his space? Big year for Shaun Wane coming up,especially after Radlinski reckons that they are SL's highest salary capped spending club https://www.wigantoday.net/sport/rugby- ... -1-8949792'" That would be the worry but I’d rather him go towards his winger then away from him like he kept doing on the other side. I think back to top wingers centres over the years like Lyon and Gidley and they went towards the touch line and worked with minimal space to get their wingers in. We’re obviously talking about a much lower quality of player here but to be a good wingers centre, you’re going to have to take that risk of dealing with a lack of space imo. We had Darrel Goulding who did a similar job and would use a flick pass to get his wingers in close to the touch line.

Quote ="The Chin's Back"Sarginson's left foot step whist playing at right centre would surely result in him stepping into touch would it not, Or he would surely run his winger out of his space? Big year for Shaun Wane coming up,especially after Radlinski reckons that they are SL's highest salary capped spending club https://www.wigantoday.net/sport/rugby- ... -1-8949792'" That would be the worry but I’d rather him go towards his winger then away from him like he kept doing on the other side. I think back to top wingers centres over the years like Lyon and Gidley and they went towards the touch line and worked with minimal space to get their wingers in. We’re obviously talking about a much lower quality of player here but to be a good wingers centre, you’re going to have to take that risk of dealing with a lack of space imo. We had Darrel Goulding who did a similar job and would use a flick pass to get his wingers in close to the touch line.

I’m feeling positive about the year for the following reasons

1.) Lealuai not playing 7 ( in game kicking was dreadful)

2.) Players starting the year fully fit, Tomkins especially

3,) there’s a chance we’ll avoid a massive injury crisis for the first time in 2 years.

4,) a fit Clubb and Flower plus Hamlin and Naverette pushing should see improved play from the props (or they’ll be dropped)

5.) Our left side could be similar to Cas’ last season.

6.) Escare

7,) we have the best squad numbers 20-40 in the league, excited that this year the likes of Ganson, Wells, Field can come in to a side full of experience rather than last year when it was half first team half under 19s.

8.) small sample size but in game kicking was miles better last weekend. Goal kicking should improve too.

9.) Think the media thought McIlorum was a bigger player for Wigan than he actually was last year. Just wasn’t the same, missing tackles and only managing 20 min spells, although had a better WC. May have let him go a year too early but better than a year too late.

10.) the media has written us off, a lot of people saying 7th place!

Can’t wait