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| Quote ="Viking Warrior"how can a castleford fan take the mickey out of anyone.................they are the laughing stock of the league........'"
My mission is to expose stupidity. Quite ironic in this case. Back on topic, are you going to keep your promise, eat some humble Pie? |
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| Quote ="wiganermike"In the case of Hock a season long loan would make no sense at all. 1) Why loan him for no money when we could sell him and get some money for him as he is on a long contract. 2) If we are looking to get rid for whatever reason why set up a deal where he is back with us in a year's time anyway. 3) Why would Widnes, a club looking to make a sustainable push up the table and secure a place from 2015 by doing so use up a fair chunk of their wage bill on a player that they would not have in 12 months time thus setting their squad back to square one at the time that decision is made.
I can believe that we may want to offload him given the possible motives for us wanting to do so but can only see it being done (if indeed the club do want to offload him) by selling rather than loaning out.'"
If rumours are to be believed and he is a trouble causer, what club will want to stump up a substantial fee for someone they may be looking to offload or even sack in 12 months time? Wigan will struggle to get any sort of decent fee for him if he's trouble. |
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| Quote ="wiganermike"In the case of Hock a season long loan would make no sense at all. 1) Why loan him for no money when we could sell him and get some money for him as he is on a long contract. 2) If we are looking to get rid for whatever reason why set up a deal where he is back with us in a year's time anyway. 3) Why would Widnes, a club looking to make a sustainable push up the table and secure a place from 2015 by doing so use up a fair chunk of their wage bill on a player that they would not have in 12 months time thus setting their squad back to square one at the time that decision is made.
I can believe that we may want to offload him given the possible motives for us wanting to do so but can only see it being done (if indeed the club do want to offload him) by selling rather than loaning out.'"
You're assuming that someone will buy him.
The Aus deal clearly didn't work out. Who does that leave who has so much space available under their cap? |
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| Quote ="wiganermike"In the case of Hock a season long loan would make no sense at all. 1) Why loan him for no money when we could sell him and get some money for him as he is on a long contract. 2) If we are looking to get rid for whatever reason why set up a deal where he is back with us in a year's time anyway. [u3) Why would Widnes, a club looking to make a sustainable push up the table and secure a place from 2015 by doing so use up a fair chunk of their wage bill on a player that they would not have in 12 months time thus setting their squad back to square one at the time that decision is made.[/u
I can believe that we may want to offload him given the possible motives for us wanting to do so but can only see it being done (if indeed the club do want to offload him) by selling rather than loaning out.'"
danny tickle is signing for 2014 so really the cash we pay to hock wont be wasted as it will pay danny's wages when he comes. |
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| Quote ="Mr.No.It.All"Widnes seasons loan heard it here first.'"
Could some kind of Gentleman's Agreement have been made where he goes to Widnes for a year on loan, comes back to Wigan and then signs for Parramatta/other NRL team for 2014 for a fee? |
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Loan him out until Wanes contract expires- IL playing a cute game
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| Quote ="Cruncher"
I don't understand your final comment. We're going to lose Sam to Australia, so we must keep Hock? How does that compute? Does it mean we must keep Hock at any cost? I'm afraid I disagree.
It's an age-old argument - we've had it so many times and with vastly better players than Gareth Hock - Ellery Hanley, Andy Gregory, Shaun Edwards. In almost all those cases (with the exception of the Shaun Edwards one), the coach, ultimately, was right. No player is bigger than the club.
'"
I think he is saying we cannot keep losing class players, and I agree. We have just lost a bunch and our half back partnership yet again.
Regarding 'no player is bigger than the club' and just prior to that, you mention Hanley in your group. I seem to recall it was Hanley who created havoc when we were strongly rumoured to be signing Wally Lewis. So some players are or were bigger than the club.
With all this uncertainty at Wigan, I am for the first time rather reticent about the new season. |
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| Quote ="fleabag"I think he is saying we cannot keep losing class players, and I agree. We have just lost a bunch and our half back partnership yet again.
Regarding 'no player is bigger than the club' and just prior to that, you mention Hanley in your group. I seem to recall it was Hanley who created havoc when we were strongly rumoured to be signing Wally Lewis. So some players are or were bigger than the club.
With all this uncertainty at Wigan, I am for the first time rather reticent about the new season.'"
You may also recall that, later on, in 1988, Hanley was frozen out of the Wigan team for half a season after a training-ground bust-up with Graham Lowe, and eventually came back with his tail between his legs.
So no, ultimately he wasn't bigger than the club.
This situation is clearly different anyway. Hock is nothing like the player Hanley was, and he most certainly is NOT bigger than the club.
As to the other point, about us losing star players. You're not the only one worried about the coming season, but that doesn't mean we should allow player power to take root in the team. That also has happened in the past and it caused all sorts of problems.
To be honest, it amazes me that any Wigan fan can be taking even an indirectly supportive position with Gareth Hock. We don't know the facts in this particular case, but we know what happened in the past, we also know that Hock is notoriously difficult to manage, and we know that Wigan would not be looking to get rid of him (assuming they are) without very good reason. We also know that they stood by him through very difficult times, for which this seems like an extremely poor return.
I don't understand how any fan can have a go at the club under these circs, and I certainly don't understand how any fan can adopt the position of 'we must turn a blind eye to whatever's going on, because we need him'. |
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perhaps wigan think that mick cassidy will sort him out, i will be ecstatic if he joins us but i still don't think it will happen........
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| Quote ="Pemps"If rumours are to be believed and he is a trouble causer, what club will want to stump up a substantial fee for someone they may be looking to offload or even sack in 12 months time? Wigan will struggle to get any sort of decent fee for him if he's trouble.'"
We bought Gleeson from Wire didn't we. It's a matter of weighing up costs and benefits to the club.
Also if the source of a problem can be connected to the place or people around which a player lives then moving them away from them is often a way the new club uses to try to solve the issues. Similarly if a rule that is not being followed by the player is not in place at the prospective new club (or the person they aren't getting on with isn't there either) then the cause for the disruptive behaviour can disappear.
If he is no longer wanted here it does not mean that the problem is so big that nobody will want him. |
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| Quote ="wiganermike"We bought Gleeson from Wire didn't we. It's a matter of weighing up costs and benefits to the club.
Also if the source of a problem can be connected to the place or people around which a player lives then moving them away from them is often a way the new club uses to try to solve the issues. Similarly if a rule that is not being followed by the player is not in place at the prospective new club (or the person they aren't getting on with isn't there either) then the cause for the disruptive behaviour can disappear.
If he is no longer wanted here it does not mean that the problem is so big that nobody will want him.'"
If he were available someone would take a punt on him as he is such a good player but just as there was with Gleeson with us there would always be people even in his new club waiting for the problems to resurface.
In Hock's case any problems connected to where he lives won't be going away because Salford and Widnes aren't exactly light years away and he may not even move house anyway if he went o either place (would you move to either area?).
Anyway haven't Widnes got money troubles all of a sudden with their owner looking to offload? So unless Salford get a cashed up new owner or there is interest from an as yet unknown club I can't see him going anyway. |
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| Quote ="Cruncher"It's actually a lot like it.
Gleeson wouldn't do what Michael Maguire was telling him, much as Hock is doing now. And disruption is disruption, whether it's purposeful or not.
In addition, Wane is not as fearsome a boss as Michael Maguire was, but some people just can't seem to respond to any kind of discipline.
I don't understand your final comment. We're going to lose Sam to Australia, so we must keep Hock? How does that compute? Does it mean we must keep Hock at any cost? I'm afraid I disagree.
It's an age-old argument - we've had it so many times and with vastly better players than Gareth Hock - Ellery Hanley, Andy Gregory, Shaun Edwards. In almost all those cases (with the exception of the Shaun Edwards one), the coach, ultimately, was right. No player is bigger than the club.
I'm all for trying to find a peaceful solution, but there are times when you finally have to say enough is enough, and let's be hones - Gareth's has had many, many chances to get his house in order. More than he perhaps deserves.'"
Gleeson turned up to training drunk. How is Hock's stance against Wane like that? |
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| Quote ="bazdev"Gleeson turned up to training drunk. How is Hock's stance against Wane like that?'"
Whatever form your defiance of the club's rules takes, defiance is still defiance.
It's only going to have one outcome. |
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not knowing the legal side of things but with his drug ban or any other criminal record would he get a visa? is this may be why he is not in the nrl?
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| Quote ="HAILESY"not knowing the legal side of things but with his drug ban or any other criminal record would he get a visa? is this may be why he is not in the nrl?'"
His sporting ban for drug use doesn't constitute a criminal offence so he doesn't have a criminal record in relation to it. If the NRL or Australian Border controlling authority had prevented his proposed move then there would not be talk of a possible future move from Parramatta so it is unlikely that it would have any bearing. |
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=#FF0000Please stop posting potentially libellous comments. No speculation please.
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The club itself has set a bad precedent under IL, in letting players leave when they wanted, basically making our contracts even more pointless. It happened with Barrett, Riddell, Lima, Maguire, and J.Tomkins. But when Hock wanted to leave they demanded a huge fee. Surely if the player wanted to go to Paramatta, they should have let him go. We didnt 'demand' a fee for Barrett or Lima, so maybe that is why Hock is annoyed. Who knows. Either way, we have lost half a team, and we will still make the top 4, which proves how shocking SL really is
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| Quote ="Broxy Music"The club itself has set a bad precedent under IL, in letting players leave when they wanted, basically making our contracts even more pointless. It happened with Barrett, Riddell, Lima, Maguire, and J.Tomkins. But when Hock wanted to leave they demanded a huge fee. Surely if the player wanted to go to Paramatta, they should have let him go. We didnt 'demand' a fee for Barrett or Lima, so maybe that is why Hock is annoyed. Who knows. Either way, we have lost half a team, and we will still make the top 4, which proves how shocking SL really is'"
All very true. Suppose we had a right to demand a fee though when Hock has been trained up completely by Wigan and was taken back after his drugs ban. |
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| Quote ="Broxy Music"The club itself has set a bad precedent under IL, in letting players leave when they wanted, basically making our contracts even more pointless. It happened with Barrett, Riddell, Lima, Maguire, and J.Tomkins. But when Hock wanted to leave they demanded a huge fee. Surely if the player wanted to go to Paramatta, they should have let him go. We didnt 'demand' a fee for Barrett or Lima, so maybe that is why Hock is annoyed. Who knows. Either way, we have lost half a team, and we will still make the top 4, which proves how shocking SL really is'"
We received a (reported) fee of 250k for Joel. |
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Going to Widnes on loan according to Phil Wilkinson on twitter. Must be true, because he is the clubs official fanboy and spokesman these days. Reckon he'll go to Aus the year after. He will gone down in history as a huge wasted talent with no winners medals
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| Quote ="wiganermike"If he is no longer wanted here it does not mean that the problem is so big that nobody will want him.'"
Doubtless someone will want him, but under what kind of terms? In the current climate I don't see any club paying a fee for a player unless a) he was very good (which Hock is) and b) they were going to get 3 years of dedicated service. There can't be any British club that wouldn't have grave doubts about the last part. |
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| Quote ="bazdev"Gleeson turned up to training drunk. How is Hock's stance against Wane like that?'"
As I said earlier
Quote ="Jukesays"You sure it's nothing like the Gleeson one?
And as for Hock refusing to follow a couple of New team rules, do any of the rest of the squad have a problems with these new rules?
Is Hock some kind of spokesman/union rep for the rest of the squad ala the Gary Neville of Wigan rugby League?
I find that highly unlikely and if the rest of the squad can knuckle down and follow the new rules then why can't he?'"
If he can't follow club rules then I'm afraid he has to go. |
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www.wigantoday.net/sport/wigan-w ... witterfeed
GARETH Hock’s expected move to Widnes could be on a season-long loan.
The England forward – unsettled at his home-town club – looks set to leave for another Super League outfit, with Vikings the favourites.
Salford had also sounded him out.
Reds coach Phil Veivers refused to comment last night about whether he would be interested in Hock.
But Widnes are the clear favourites with a loan spell seeming the most likely arrangement.
Asked about Hock after last night’s 34-16 win at Salford, Wane said only: “I’ve no comment to make on that one, sorry.”
But he was more forthcoming in paying tribute to new half-backs Matty Smith and Blake Green after a “very satisfying” win at the City of Salford Stadium.
The pair were heavily involved as the Warriors ran in seven tries, including two by Josh Charnley.
Wane said: “We were outstanding in the first half.
“Our completion was something like 97 per cent which, in these conditions, was very satisfying.
“The second half was more scrappy which I expected, with so many changes, but overall I was pleased.
“It was a good day at the office.
“The real positive was our enthusiasm throughout the squad, some of our skill was good and Blake and Matty acquitted themselves, they blended in well and they’ll only get better.”
Wane rested Sam Tomkins last night and hinted he may not figure in next weekend’s final pre-season friendly, at Warrington.
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www.wigantoday.net/sport/wigan-w ... witterfeed
GARETH Hock’s expected move to Widnes could be on a season-long loan.
The England forward – unsettled at his home-town club – looks set to leave for another Super League outfit, with Vikings the favourites.
Salford had also sounded him out.
Reds coach Phil Veivers refused to comment last night about whether he would be interested in Hock.
But Widnes are the clear favourites with a loan spell seeming the most likely arrangement.
Asked about Hock after last night’s 34-16 win at Salford, Wane said only: “I’ve no comment to make on that one, sorry.”
But he was more forthcoming in paying tribute to new half-backs Matty Smith and Blake Green after a “very satisfying” win at the City of Salford Stadium.
The pair were heavily involved as the Warriors ran in seven tries, including two by Josh Charnley.
Wane said: “We were outstanding in the first half.
“Our completion was something like 97 per cent which, in these conditions, was very satisfying.
“The second half was more scrappy which I expected, with so many changes, but overall I was pleased.
“It was a good day at the office.
“The real positive was our enthusiasm throughout the squad, some of our skill was good and Blake and Matty acquitted themselves, they blended in well and they’ll only get better.”
Wane rested Sam Tomkins last night and hinted he may not figure in next weekend’s final pre-season friendly, at Warrington.
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Tidied up the thread. Can we get back on topic please. People who post unsubstantiated, libellous, speculation will be banned site-wide, permanently.
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Gaz Hock is a quality player and will be missed if this goes through. The one year loan bit is an interesting one.
Is this so if he departs permanently Wigan will get a fee or is there some other reason for the loan deal perhaps?
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