When that comment was made I’m sure IL didn't envisage or plan on us being in the situation we currently find ourselves in. Times change sadly and comments made three or four months ago can’t be held to account now.

By all means if Smith was playing out of his skin and turning out to be at least 50% of the player Trent was or if Piggy wasn’t taking so long to settle in or find form then yes i’d be more than happy for Sam to get those mythical 15 games IL said he’d get at the start of the season.

But sadly this hasn’t happened and this team needs Sam’s enthusiasm, talent and commitment to the Wigan cause just like it did before the Quins game earlier in the season. Let’s not forget the two players who came into a losing side and played a massive part in turning it around that day.

Sam and Ainscough came in and replaced two badly performing players in Smith and Roberts and took to SL like a duck to water. They started our mini revival and now all of a sudden they’ve been shot back down to the reserves to be replaced by the same players who got us into the mess we were in???



Yes one was overrated by Stevo after one decent try against Saints and the other forgot which way to drive round a roundabout? Neither have or had half the talent Tomkins has.


No because they have Pryce and Long in front of them. We’ve got the lottery of what Smith will turn up each week!



No but again they had Dunneman to out lodge and we’ve got what I said above......

The team performs when Sam plays and seeing that every game is now critical to our season we don't have the luxury of not playing him.

If he needed a rest we should have waited until we were comfortably in the top eight so defeats like Friday wouldn’t be such a huge blow to our season! Four wins on the bounce should have the beginning and not as good as it gets which imo is looking that way.

The stats can say what ever they want for me. All i know if both Piggy and Mcilorum played on Friday night and one had the game of his life and is in a good vein of form.

Are you seriously saying you'd drop Mcilorum after his game on Friday and keep Piggy?

False, Noble rested him, which Sam wasn't happy about.

Yes,
Because whether you want to believe it or not Piggy is at the moment a better all round hooker than McIlorum as those stats show.

I'm a very big fan of Mickey Mac (look back at my posts over the years) However I don't think we can play Riddell, McIlorum, Sam, Tommy and Smith in the same 17.

One has to be left out, and this time I would expect it to be Mickey Mac. Harsh, yes but look at those stats, particularly tackle busts and tackles missed.

Surely Noble's right when he says players should be picked on form. The top and bottom of it is McIlorum is playing better than Piggy at the moment so therefore he should be in the 17.

For me Piggy should go to the reserves for a few weeks and hopefully this will be the wake up call he needs

I rate Piggy actually and he is the better hooker but he's off form and Mcilorum is bang on it which evens the scales for me.

You can’t take a player out who’s on form imo

Agreed, maybe just one week though assess this performance and attitude then see how macca played then sort the team out for the cup game.

Have you compared KFC & PIggy?

KFC approx 20% more yards but from twice as many carries!

Piggy More tackles with only 1/3rd of the errors!

Less tackle busts but more clean breaks and less errors (Only a quarter of KFC's) & Penalties!

If you compare him against "One Trick" He doesn't come out too bad either!

More metres from less carries, Less tackles (Probably less game time) but same % of missed tackles.

More clean breaks but only half the penalties and a 3rd of the errors!

Of course he was speaking sense. The most succinct and too the point post yet exposing the nonsensical excuses used to justify Noble not playing him.



So if he reaches that magic number that will be it? No more games come what may regardless of how things pan out? If he look still looks completely comfortable at the end of the season as he does now and he improves the side as he does now, he should play.

We look worse without him in the side and as such he should play when fit and on form.



Remeber what happened with all those who were old enough because they were good enough? There have been planty and I am sure you don'r need me to list them for you. In any case Brown and Robinson are first team SL players so I am not sure what your point is.



Yes they did. Both aged 20 in 2003, the same ag as Sam T is now.

Look at their stats on the Leeds web site

Burrow:

[url=http://www.therhinos.co.uk/rugby/players/first_team.php?includeref=dynamic&player=81187Burrow[/url

According to the above link Burrow played in 29 games in 2003 which is all 27 rounds plus the playoffs, at the same age as Sam.

As did [url=http://www.therhinos.co.uk/rugby/players/first_team.php?player=81347&includeref=dynamicMcQuire[/url also aged 20 in 2003. 29 games, at the same age as Sam

Dave

ok mate well we will see at the end of the season when sam wont be able to get around the field because he will be goosed, i say this as i very reliable source whos actually gone through this situation, and if people keep on saying hes young he wont get tired come and live in the real world, his body isnt big enough to take the brutal hits and speed of super league YET

i didnt say he was happy did i

Lets see at the end of the season how many Sam plays. On the Burrow McGuire stats as I said previously Andrew Dunaman covered for both of them and certainly in Burrows case many if his appearances were from the subs bench.

Hopefully not some artificial limit on the number of games imposed by Noble.



He still featured every SL game Leeds played in 2003, 29 games aged 20. 13 starts plus 16 subs appearances.

McQuire started 19 and was on the bench for 10, playing in the same position as Sam.

If you are good enough you are old enough.

Dave

Longest thread in relation to the worst opening post ever.

If he was being " rested" then why play him in the reserve game???

Why drop an in form hooker? (O'loughlin aside) he was our best player on the field on Friday and is in an excellent vain of form. Why drop him?

If Noble is true to his word (

) he will pick players on form and not on merit - am I right? Well if this is the case - Why drop Sam Tomkins who was the match winner the previous week for an out of form Riddell? And why would he now drop an in form McIlorum?

The stats you refer to are a bit silly really. Riddell has been the starting hooker for all but 2 games (IIRC) and has played five games more than McIlorum. If you freeze Riddell's stats and allow McIlorum to get to an even amount of games and then look at the stats it will tell a different story because it is evident from the Hull KR performance that at the moment Michael McIlorum is the more in form hooker and he should be played against Warrington.

see what the weather is like first

Really? Tomkins in " I like playing rugby" shocked

I'd be more worried If he was chuffed he was dropped

We MAY be lucky.
[urlhttp://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/uk/nw/wigan_forecast_weather.html[/url

And how long did he play in the reserves?? 40mins, how long would he have played if he was dropped?? 80mins

Also what you didn't mention was that McGuire was dropped for the Challenge Cup final v Bradford. Leeds halfbacks that day were Sinfield and Dunemann although Burrow was on the bench ( I can't remember if he actually played)

Also Rob Burrow didn't really get a starting spot until 2005 with the majority of his games in the previous seasons coming from the bench.

Your defence of The Pig is verging on the embarrassing.

If the fat waster is so bloody good, then when is he going to start showing it?

On Friday he was shown up, badly, by a novice hooker who probably earns about 10% of Piggy's wage.

Riddell could leave Wigan this afternoon, and only you would notice that he had gone.

Riddell played pretty well on Friday i thought but still wouldn't be in my team for Friday.

I think i lie somewhere in the middle ground with him tbh. He's not been great so far but he's not been a disaster either. He can and will get better imo as he settles in more and the weather gets better.

He does need to get better though.

His stats say different don't they, or do you think that someone has made them up?

Just compare them with say Matt Diskin who many were tipping for International recognition.

If Piggy goes who will be your next target?

It's funny how you generally pick one game to back up your argument.

Oh and if you know that I am the only one I suggest you give up whatever you do and go on the circuit as a mind reader.

I'm still waiting for you to name ALL these top class young Wigan players we have let go.

Bollox to the stats, stats can be made to say anything.

He is supposed to be a senior player.

A highly paid ex NRL superstar who should be leading by example.

His lacklustre displays are an embarrassment to him, and to the fans of this once great club.

So, I ask you again, when is he going to start doing what it says on the tin?

I'm not picking one game in particular, he has been woeful in the vast majority of the games he has played in. Apart from his flawless distribution that is.