Looked like the classic thought we could score off every play switched off and couldn't quite get a grip again. I will take the 2 points and hope it's a lesson learned. I also thought Toulouse seemed to get the bounce of the ball and was just getting all the possession due to the way we was playing. The Smith error was a massive swing in momentum spot on.

I'll disagree ever so slightly NK. I don't think he did make 3 poor errors. He made 1 (the pass to touch) but even then it was because the ball slipped from his grasp. Not great but it happens. The other 2, whilst technicarlly errors, were not entirely his fault. The intercept was a good read from Gigot that, had one of our players done it, we'd quite rightly be crediting the player for. The 2nd was a decision to run the ball instead of kicking on the last. Faz completely switches off and drops the ball as a result. Had Faz caught it we could well be waxing lyrical about his willingness to play what's in front of him. That said, I do think he needs to realise that his strength is his kicking game, which was excellent on Saturday. So perhaps look to kick and control rather than trying the flashy plays, at least until he has more game time under his belt.

On the other side of the coin, everything else he did all night was pure quality. He had a hand (or boot) in virtually everything good we did and defended really well too.

Defensively poor. At times very poor. Every game so far this season we have let in at least one soft try. Not good enough if we want to win trophies.
Too slow at ptb. It’s my biggest criticism. At times I thought Lam was back in charge.
Why put Shorrocks at hooker????
I’m not anti Shorrocks but if he’s a hooker I can whup Tyson Fury. It’s seems he was due a game so we’ll fit him in hooker. For me a bizarre selection by Peet. Didn’t time it but Mago I think did about 20 minutes - hopefully they are saving him for Catalans.
Positives - l believe last year we would have lost that. Hardaker’s difficult conversions effectively gave a chance to snatch a win that at one point looked beyond us. We carried on trying to play some rugby. No one man rugby but gave the ball some air at every opportunity even when 12 points down. Field.
Players mixing with the fans in the bar after the game.

A great trip but very disappointed with our performance. If we learn from it fine if it’s a kick up the Harris we probably need then even better. Obviously everyone happy we won when we played poorly at times but I’d be pretty surprised if Toulouse keep any other team within a point this season.

Last 2 games our pack has been second best

Defence was the big negative for sure Itchy. Very soft from players we know are good defenders such as Faz and Smithies. A defensive performance to forget.

I thought Shorrocks went Ok tbh although I think he only played hooker because Powell went off. If not, and they intended to play him there, then O'Neil should have had the opportunity instead.

I thought there was the first coaching error of the season too. Moving so many players out of position to accommodate the changes of personnel was a mistake. It effectively neutralised some of the combinations that have looked good over the first 3 games.

Lessons to be learned all round.

Not watched the highlights but I think Shorrocks charged down a kick late on and collected the rebound to set us up so not calling the lad but hooker is now probably the key position for the best teams. You can’t have a make do player at hooker it just doesn’t work. I think the call was Shorrocks or O’Neil for the bench and Peet got it wrong. With Catalan on the horizon I’d find it difficult to believe that the plan was to play Powell for the 80 against a very average Toulouse outfit.

After last year if someone said we’d be 4 from 4 I’d have snatched their hands off so trying not to be hyper critical but defensively we don’t look great at times which is a bit of a surprise.
I think Field is covering a few cracks which to be fair isn’t surprising because last year we were truly awful so we are improving but still very much work in progress.

The positive was we kept on trying to play rugby and to be fair when we got the chances late on we took them so fair do’s but Saints will put at least 50 on Toulouse unless they play a raft of youngsters
Maybe at 10 nil I got complacent along with the players so hopefully lessons learned all round

There was definitely a "Sheffield in the CC final" feel to it. The early tries probably contributed to it too as it all seemed too easy. Unfortunately, once you take your foot off the gas, it's often difficult to get motoring again (somewhat laboured vehicular analogy there but you get the point! Haha).

As you say, it's still a work in progress and the odd stutter here and there is to be expected. It's how we're going come September that really matters. The fact that we took 2 ponts away from a below par performance is a bonus.

Is Powell injured ? Might have to be a Shorrocks and O’Neill combo against Catalans.

I can certainly go with that one on the Farrell pass. I must admit I did think it was a 50/50 that one and there certainly was some switching off on Farrell’s part. I suppose we can’t on one hand demand attacking rugby and then on the other hand rip players apart when they try to enforce that.

I’m probably guilty of focusing on the commentators comments on those errors. I thought Joe Mills in particular was pretty harsh on him tbh and did put a huge focus on the errors. Two examples of that focus was him being criticised in the second half for giving a ball to Jai Field on the left hand side, who stuttered, stopped and was tackled on the spot. I’m not sure why but that was apparently Smiths fault and then after the hooter it was of a case of ‘well he’s got the winning drop goal but he’s had a really poor game’ and I’m with you, I thought there was more good than bad. The lad got ripped apart on the other board based solely on that commentary after the game.

You’d think he must’ve got a knock with not playing any of the second half. I thought I’d heard it was a head knock somewhere but could be dreaming.

The time has to come for Brad O’Neill soon, especially if Powell is out on Saturday. Give the lad a start IMO if that is the case. He looks a terrific talent and has been playing Championship rugby to get ready. At worst I’d have him on the bench Saturday, even if Powell is fit.

Not surprised really

I agree that the commentary has a lot to answer for. It lead me to believe I was in for a horror show when I watched the match but, in truth, it was quite the opposite. I thought Smith was excellent in places. The two kicks to force repeat sets in the second half were perfect and something we as fans have often called for. The calmness with which he set up and took the drop goal to win the match was exemplary and something Gigot was unable to do. Gigot quite rightly got many plaudits on the night. Smith not so much. His kick for the Cust try was a beaut and put panic in the defense. He linked well for the Marshall try. Importantly, if he's covering for Tommy, he put himself about in defense.

I'm not claiming he's the finished article or that he was perfect in that game. However, the level of stick he's taking for what was essentially a good performance, is painting the wrong picture of what actually happened. As you say, I think much of it is coming from people who haven't even seen the match.

I was in the pub with a mate watching the football on Saturday and he had the commentary on in one ear and was relaying bits and bobs to me. He just kept saying ‘they’re saying Smith is having a shocker’, so when I saw the try’s later that night we messaged each other and went ‘he looked good on the highlights weirdly but let’s watch the full game’ and then as we say, he made one or two mistakes but in the main had a pretty good game.

He does need to cut back on the errors but by the same token he needs people to stop looking to crucify him. If we look at Jai Field’s performance on Saturday he scores two absolute belters but he himself threw a couple of dodgy passes. That’s fine, it’s to be expected now and again but they don’t get a mention. There’s no issue with that, he’s been sensational but it just highlights how everyone comes up with good and bad moments in a game. Look at somebody like Johnny Lomax, he makes rafts of errors but it probably considered the leagues best halfback at the minute (by some).

There’s work to do by Smith for sure but I’d like to see a bit more positivity around him, especially from guys like Joe Mills, who will influence peoples opinions on a player.

I think it's quite strange how some players have the focus on the good things they do and others the focus is on the bad things they do.

Obviously with Smith there is some hangover from last season, but I think very unfair to judge him on last season and we should be starting with a clean slate.

if you look at his positive involvements in the game he was very influential in a number of key moments, bust he seems to have attracted mostly criticism.

Compare for example with Williams when playing for Canberra, he spent most of the games I saw playing 2nd fiddle to Wighton their number 6, and anonymous for most of the game, but he injected himself in less than a handful of moments each game -mostly attacking kicks, and he received rave reviews from everyone. He didn't make a many errors though, but if we look at when George was here he got slated for trying to do too much -and many people ignored his positive contributions.

Same applies to Miski

I too was watching the football in a pub with one ear to the Radio & at the time thought Misko had dropped 2 Howlers!!!!
On review that is far from the case (Even now I;ve seen people on the other site describing them as 2 x mistakes).
He lost 2 challenges, they weren't mistakes, and the first one in particular was very Dubious and could have been called a penalty with the 2nd one being anything other than a mistake, he may need to be better/stronger, but it wasn't a mistake or a howler. And in fact the tacking after the challenge is the real issue, walked through 3 tackles.

His worst contribution isn't even being talked about, it was the drop on the 1st/2nd tackle coming away from his line.

But again I agree it comes back to people following the Loudest voice, which in this instance due to it not being televised was Joe Mills (And Bilko).

I rang my mate after I had seen the 2 Toulouse Tries from kicks and he said the impression I gave him was completely different from what he heard on the radio - He watched the game Monday and rang me and said he agreed. Whilst Miski may be disappointed, they were anything but Howlers.

Again with a review of the whole game and Harry Smith in particular I was expecting a Horror show. Watched ,sot of the game last night, and whilst I would say we were anything but Good, we were more lethargic and Lax rather than Awful.

As you say - Ball in hand we were still pushing and trying to be expansive, we had good offloads, we just defensively didn't build a platform and compounded that with 6/7 poor errors from 20mins through to 60 mins ish.

I'm far from convinced about Smith, but the Barracking he gets on the other site in particular is disgraceful. It's the same with Powell (And on occasions Isa).
it's now become a case of certain fans having made their mind up and it's more important for them now to be proved right than it is to give honest reviews & appraisals of the players contributions.

Jack Wighton makes more errors per game than I think most half backs I've ever watched - but makes as many if not more positive contributions.

My take on it and have not seen the game on Wigan t.v. yet but was the game.

First and foremost it was great weekend and so good to see many fans who we haven't seen for a long time due to covid, if you get a chance it's a must see place and certainly one we'd return to.

The game itself was strange, the way we started it looked we would win by 40 points, Harry Smith was kicking well, the chase was good and very few if any errors.
What changed I've not a clue but the things we'd been doing right we began to do wrong, penalties, errors, missed tackles etc. The first try we conceded I really need to see again as it looked to me as if Miski had been tackled in the air. We get back in the game after halftime and straight after scoring let the ball go dead from the kickoff!! Then Miski misjudged the 40:20 from which Toulouse score, schoolboy errors.
The match savior was Joe Shorrocks charge down of what would have been the winning drop goal, step up Harry Smith who whilst not having a great game was nowhere near IMO as bad as many are saying, and they probably weren't at the game.

I'll sit back and watch it again now and see if my opinions change.

Edit, remiss of not to congratulate Toulouse, they played well, should have won the game if they had controlled things in the last 15 minutes.

As mentioned it's a clean slate for me for Smith, however he has probably earned less of a grace period than others under the new regime.

The main problem I have with him was last year from the friendly vs York he made certain poor errors and continued to make the same poor errors throughout the season, in particular kicking out on the full and poor passing accuracy.

I think it's probably very hard to judge him on other elements of his game such as taking the line on and directing the play around which again was poor but I will also put that down to the "Hastings Effect" given he was so dominant.

I've still yet to watch the game in full so can't comment on his performance against Toulouse I was simply going off hearing other comments abut it from those who were there (who would not influenced by any commentators).

Not a fan of the Wigan TV commentary. Bilko is fine but Joe Mills resembles one of those self-entitled fans who instantly overreacts and throws his toys out of the pram when something goes wrong. You wouldn't see the level of criticism he gives to the team/individuals from neutral commentators so not good to see it on Wigan TV.

Bilko is excellent and analysis is spot on.

Joe’s normally okay but he does overreact a little bit to stuff. “TERRIBLE DEFENCE AGAIN” any time we concede.

Normally good though and I thank them both for doing it.

I think Joe Mills and Bilko do a good job. I really like Joe Mills passion and enthusiasm for the club and was just a little surprised how negative he sounded on Harry Smith after watching the game in full but it's understandable that some heat would come on one of your playmakers, when he's the main change from a team that has been going very well to date. The two guys did make a great point of how Cust had swapped sides to accommodate Smith coming in and how that had impacted on the whole side and Cust himself (who did not have his best game). I thought that point probably should have been focussed on a bit more than Harry Smith's individual performance. The main issue ultimately was the silly errors and some really poor individual defence and whilst we had some clunky attack at times in the game, us scoring 29 points in a game would've felt like Christmas last season.

Agree. Bilko is excellent, Joe Mills is the absolute opposite.

Another night or different officials one or both of the tries involving Miski would have been chalked off.
His worst mistake if I viewed it properly was letting a kick go into touch resulting in a 40/20. Lack of concentration or low in confidence I’m not sure but hopefully he’ll learn and come back stronger but unless there are injuries I think some more time in the reserves awaits him.
Far from a great debut but you can’t write a lad off after one game.

Honestly don’t remember anyone being too highly critical of Smith on the night but he did have a mixed bag of a game. Although Toulouse threw it away and we weren’t at the races I was strangely confident that if Smith got a chance he would drop the goal. Unsure what to make of Smith but I’d like to think that there is decent player there. The vast majority of the team had an off night particularly after the first ten minutes so for me we haven’t seen Smith playing in a fully functional team since he’s made his debut.

As a fan I was more concerned and I am most weeks, about the teams collective performance rather than individual performances. I don’t think one player had a really good game so picking out individuals for me doesn’t really add to the debate. We were second best for the majority of the match and the second game in a row were our pack was second best.

At times without the the ball we were slow. Very slow. This for me more worrying than Smith giving out a couple of misjudged passes. I’m just hoping that we held something back on Saturday with the Catalan game coming up. I’m certainly hoping that our playing tempo is increased by several notches because if it isn’t it could be a long night. I’ve got a feeling that Saturday may have been a wake up call for the players and I genuinely anticipate a much stronger and faster showing against Catalan. Whether that’ll be enough we will have to wait and see.

I wasn't sure about the 40:20 and couldn't see if he was Lax in stopping it or if the kick was awkward/misjudged etc.
The Harry Smith & Miski criticism seems to have emanated from the commentary as 99% of people at that time couldn't view it for themselves, and thus the Myth perpetuates.

I don't & haven't listened to Joe Mills & Bilko a lot (no more than couple of times inc. Saturday) so not best placed to assess and my only observation is I think they're a good pair. Mills provides the enthusiasm and dynamic whilst Bilko does a good seconds job and comes in with good observations & statistical stuff
I would say that any commentator who is associated to their own club though needs to understand the situation a little differently than a professional commentator as a neutral say, in that they are viewing those players week in week out, serving their commentary in the main to one set of supporters and their Bias/observations etc. can magnify issues either favourably or negatively dependant on how the commentator views situations i.e. Last week you would think Miski & Smith were 99% responsible for that result - Yet other players escape criticism when for example it suits the commentator (Understandably) to magnify the plus points of players such as Field & Mago & KPP for example for entertainment purposes and in turn they escape criticism sometimes when they should get it.

I said at Weekend and have used this analogy before, we were in a similar position in Maguire's first season, winning 20 nil at Bradford and losing 22-20
At the time coming off I said to my mate who was fuming - The one positive was that the following week (Hull at Home - Who had a Very strong team with a Very Big & Strong pack) we would get an answer to a very important question.
Are we as good as we think we are? Was the Bradford game a Blip? or was the first 4 weeks of the season the Blip and we weren't as good as we thought we were.

Whilst I don't think this is exactly the same I get the same feeling
Were the first 3 weeks the Team/Us riding a bit of a Good feeling wave etc. and over hyping/exaggerating our abilities and chances?
Or, was it a blip and we got Lax, which in turn will give us the kick up the backside we need and remind us that we need to be 100% in regards to attitude and effort week in week out

Obviously I'm hoping it's the latter - But either way this is all part and parcel of the journey and what makes us intrigued by the sport
If the Recipe for success was stagnant and predictable there would be little to ponder over and discuss and everyone would be doing things the same way

Saturday was Peets/New Coaching structure & players first little Bump - How will they react?

Can't wait to go again Saturday and find out
Putting my neck on the block here - But last year I predicted a massive good hiding at Catalans as I could tell 7/7 or not we were woeful
This year I think the Effort/Structure/Coaching etc. is much improved and we'll give it a good go & win or lose (Which can always happen at Catalans even when they aren't as good a team as they are now)

I have to say while not having seen the full toulouse game one are we do need to improve on is our line speed in defence. We allow the opposition forwards to get on too much of a roll when we should be shutting them down before they get going as Saints do.

I’m torn on this. It’s something I’ve been sat thinking about at times this season and all roads lead back to thinking how we close that gap to Saints. Yes their line speed is unbelievable and I wonder if we can try and replicate that but I keep coming back to the same point- we will need beat them at that game when we play them. To play a game of us meeting fire with fire and flying off the line, we’ll have to accept it’s likely to be decided through the middle of the field and we’ll be using an awful lot of energy in doing that. Are we good enough to beat them through the middle? Not a chance IMO.

I’m not saying we can’t up it by the way but to replicate it, you need to go all in on it, week in, week out and accept that we’re unlikely to see sparkling attacking rugby (as Saints fans don’t). I think we just need to find our style, our identity and way of doing things and in fairness to Peet, I think he is trying to do that. It’s been a positive start but with plenty to work on. We can certainly put more energy in to defence but I’m just hoping it’s a time and place thing and when the time calls for it, we’ll see an uplift in intensity defensively. We’ll need to see it on Saturday and I think we will but we need a balance between good defensive intent and not getting sucked in to a forwards battle. Against Catalans and in particular Saints, we’re going to need to reserve plenty of energy for when we have the ball and try and run them and keep turning them.