Incidentally my comments about the academy and the training base at Orrell are not based on Noble's comments this weekend.

The academy and reserves team achieved decent results, but the way it was run was a mess. The way recruitment and re-recruitment of this level of player was being ignored, the coaching infrastructure was also lacking.

Millward left his imprint on the younger players, instructing his staff to train all the weight off his players, even those that relied on their size as part of their game. One such example being Bryn Hargreaves, whos confidence was shattered and who responded after time with Perrelini in his first season at Saints.

Noble sorted out the bodge job of "Saints II' that he inherited.

It was Noble's vision and determination that sought the club house rennovation into a training facility, left shocked by the simple provision of a pitch and changing facilities.

It was a typical example of how he believed the club was not being run as a proffessional rugby outfit from top to bottom. The administration at the time believed that all these things that Noble asked for could be overcome by splashing out large transfer fees and bringing in the marquee players. It was these disagreements that began the final days of Lindsay and Whelan, a good year or so before the CC semi vs. Catalans.

Although it is questionable whether the current administration is up to scratch that is an argument for another day. But Noble certainly did a lot for the club, that coaches previous to him 'just put up with'.

The time for Noble to go was right, emphasised by the sides lack of ideas and stupid plays in the play off game at St Helens. A step on is needed, but Noble has certainly sorted out the basics and I am sure anyone that is familiar with the club from top to bottom will back me up.

Getting to the top 4 would mean that we'd improved noticeably on the previous two or three seasons. Which I guess we all want, no?

I wouldn't expect that it means we'd then get to the final. But it would mean that we'd be in a better position to strike for it, and would be less tired and stressed than if we'd had to fight our way there from 5th or 6th.

Now be fair, that's not difficult.

You quote my comment about 'reaching the semis' in isolation from the rest of my post, which is a bit naughty of you. The overall point I was making is that simply getting to semis and never getting past them is not something to take comfort from. We've fallen into a mindset of underachievement, which we need to break. And the best way to break that, is by winning a lot more league games, thereby increasing our own confidence, reducing the confidence of the opposition, reinventing the notion of Fortress JJB, etc.

I don't think I made a particularly controversial post.

Where did we finish in 2008?

I wish more people would appreciate what Noble has done and admitt it is time for him to leave.

I can't be bothered looking it up, but if you're going to tell me it was in the top 4, all it proves is that this season we've got significantly worse.

The rest of the post stands.

For me what represents an improvement is progression up the league table not how far we go in the playoffs, we should in theory make it easier for our selves in the play-off's by finishing higher in the table possibly giving us home tie's and perhaps a week off.

If we can improve on are league position next year while essentially sticking with the same squad while others around us improve there's then I'll be chuffed to bits.

No it doesn't.

All finishing in the top 4 does in the current play-off system does is force you to play one of the top 2 earlier, and probably get beaten and even if you do win, you'll probably have to play them again a couple of weeks later. 3rd and 4th is nothing special these days. 1st and 2nd obviously is but I don't think we'll be challenging for those places again next season.

I do.

I wish I had your optimism.

All we fans can do is hope. And all the club can do is try to find someone who'll improve things.

A lot depends on tomorrow's conference.

But I wouldn't get too hung up on the current play-off system. It seems to change fairly regularly to me.

And sorry, but wanting to win more matches is always the way to go. Saying that finishing 4th or 3rd is as irrelevant as finishing 5th or 6th is part of the negative mindset that I feel we have to change.

So would you rather finish top and lose both playoff games than finish 6th and win all 4??????

Just being mischievous, Melbourne won the GF from 4th

Maybe if it's MMag we might be in with a shout of doing the same

The answer to that question is obvious, though in reality it's never going to be a choice of one or the other.

Finishing top would give you a much better chance of reaching the GF than finishing 6th.

Beating a team who finished 8th I think.

Dave

Why no reply to myself or Steinlager on the previous page?
Or will you now agree that Noble has had a really positive influence on Wigan as a "club".

Attention seeker.

What has that got to do with the claims made about Noble and Orrell?

Whelan turned the facility over to Wigan RL in 2004 before Noble arrived. Someone said he was the one who pushed for a training facility for Wigan away from the JJB. We already had it before he got here.



I just find it coincidental that we rarely heard of anything negative about the junior set up when Dean Bell was here but when its been clear Noble was not succeeding with the first team it was apparently a wreck and Noble was the messiah.

Dave

Did you go to Orrell pre or post Noble?

Cant read 10 pages, so anyone know what time is the press conference tomorrow ?

Who had managed to knock out 1st, 2nd, and 3rd I think. Never mind i was only bloody playing anyway



I'll get my coat



NotDave

It was me that mentioned Noble pushing for the training facilities now in place at Orrell. Pre Noble we only had the pitch and changing rooms really so it was not the full training centre it is today.

[urlhttp://www.wiganwarriors.com/MidContent.asp?cid=256[/url

The training facility was built in 2006 close season and ready for the 2007 season.
Noble had requested that the club found training facilities fit for purpose as they were using the JJB to train when he arrived and he was not happy with the facilities there. The old clubhouse at Orrell was then developed at Noble's behest.

It's Garry Schofield.



From a VERY reliable source.

Well he must still be desperate to win a domestic trophy!

Player-coach.

Seriously.

How many times do you need to be proved wrong about this?