You're very optimistic. I don't imagine negotiations will be increasing the fee. The greater the delay, the less you'll get I'd have thought. Of course Mr Lenegan may choose not to release Joel but I don't see that happening.

Supply and demand, we have the supply and Saracens have the demand.

We hold all the cards and I would wait as long as possible to get the right amount. I reckon around 200,000 would do it. Couldn't give a toss about Joel now, if they don't want to pay then make him rot in the reserves or loan him out to Swinton.

Second rowers are ten a penny and I think HH is a better second rower #foffjoelyourboringmenow

send him back to Widnes, he'd love that lol

Also I would use some of the transfer fee and try to sign Larne Patrick from Hudds or even a cheeky bid for Lomax and maybe have a dabble on Pelisier.

I like Pelisier, he seems a rum un and I like that in a 9.

Yeah, send him to Widnes would be a good idea, we don't want him at Wigan moping about upsetting the apple cart.

The problem is, you can't afford to have a large chunk of your salary cap sitting in the reserves. This year we had Amos in that position (although different as he was suffering an injury it would seem) and another chunk in Fielden/O'Carrol who were out injured, to add to that through choice will do more harm than good imo. In some ways it's not too important what we get for Joel imo, it's not as if we can spend it or Lenegan needs the money. Although of course I want us to get as much as possible for him, and the RL fan inside me says make them pay through the nose if they want to take our players, as a Wigan fan the last thing I want at the club is a player who doesn't want to be here and a portion of our salary cap sitting on the sidelines just because negotiations are ongoing.

Not really in this case.
Wigan don't play until February, Saracens want him now. If this situation was in March / April then I would agree with you, bit Joel still has four years still on his contract at Wigan.

The problem is you treat Joel poorly and the knock on effect could be disasterous in relation to Sam.

I would hate to see us make another very short sighted decision like letting Faz go to Union and the knock on effect was losing Owen.

This is a very tricky situation than needs significant TLC to backfire on us in a major way.

Why?

For wanting to earn more coin?

If a company come to you and said join us and we will pay you 5x more than what you get now you will be handing your notice in straight away wouldn't you?

Rugby and most sports is a short career i have no problem in players wanting to set their lives up by taking a better deal people need to see this and grow the **** up

From what I've heard from, what I admit isn't a great source, but Joel is having second thoughts after talking to his family/ friends.

Don't know if it's true but I hope it is.

this is professional sport where contracts are signed and no notice period is available so your point doesnt stand

if i was to take up an offer from another company and hand my notice i mght be put on garden leave for a few weeks and thats it

Joel signed a 5 year contract and i for one hope thata the club hold out for as much as possible for him wether he likes it or not. hes made his bed and now he needs to lie in it. of course, if hes having second thoughts then that might make a difference

for gods sake, its cash rich RU, make them pay as much as possible

I do hope this is true.

I haven't heard anything official about a departure so won't be slating him until I do. In fact I won't even bother slating him if it is true; who can blame him for being tempted by that much money?

You reckon? My guess is that Saracens must be offering a long term deal. I doubt they're expecting him to regain his match fitness, learn a new code and slot into their first team in time for Saturday's game at Barth (or wherever). But I hope you're right, I wouldn't want to see any contracted player leave for union without fair compensation being paid.

I would ask for £500k. Young player, international with a four year contract. Make them pay otherwise they'll think they can get all our players on the cheap.
Didn't Wigan get £750k for Tuigamala. If that's the case I'm upping the half million to threequarters of a million.

If a free-spending club like Toulon paid only £300K for Sonny Bill Williams (who was also a young international into a five year deal) then we have no chance of getting £750K for Joel Tomkins who isn't fit to lace SBW's boots in terms of ability.

w

Let him rot in the U21s?
Don't be stupid
We should be doing all we can to get him to stay, and if he does we should make the most of him (AT SECOND ROW)

"Get rid and get the kids in!"

Bottom line is if he wants to go he'll go with or without Wigans agreement. If there's no agreement on compensation then Wigan will have to sue either Joel or Saracens and that just means the solicitors get rich. reckon we need to draw a line under this and get on with next seasons preparation.

We don't hold all the cards, if Joel simply left Wigan and started playing for Saracens then the following would happen:

1. The RFU would not respect his RL registration;

2. Saracens and Joel would be liable in damages to Wigan for losses suffered by Wigan;

3. Those losses would be assessed at the value that would have been received by Wigan less the amount they would have paid him and/or the cost of finding a suitable replacement. In a salary capped sport like RL with its very modest wages Wigan would struggle to argue they had suffered a big net loss - by definition players just aren't a valuable commodity. (I'm not sure what people mean when they talk about the "value" of his contract, £320k is what Wigan would be paying him over the remaining 4 years, if he leaves then they obviously won't pay him that amount).

4. Wigan would be unlikely to get an injunction restraining Joel from playing for Saracens.

In Wigan's favour is that Saracens will not want this to go to court, they will want a clean exit and they will be prepared to pay for it, but Wigan's hand in the negotiations isn't as strong as many people think. I'd be amazed if we got £300k for him, even from a cash rich RU side like Sarries.

Good post Deano.

Not too sure how things are really. Sarries will want to minimise the money paid to Wigan, first for their own finances point of view, second in that Joel might bomb it in Union and Sarries might want to unload him pretty quickly on those kind of wages if he's in their reserves.
If they have paid a fortune then they will look foolish. If Joel walks out, Wigan will hold his registration so going to another RL club is out of the question. It hasn't worked out for Thornley and Joel knows it.

From the other point of view Wigan know Union in England can't produce quality backs. Foden is good, Ashton from RL as is Hape, Tuilagai is from Samoa and their only England Union back was Tindall which says it all. If Tindall hadn't gone Ricky Flutey would have. That would have meant three of Englands four 3/4 were Kiwis/Samoans. The Union young player of the year as you know is George Ford. Another one not produced by Union in England.

I do think IL's hand is strong. Union want to win the Union WC in 2015 and they know they need quality backs which at present they haven't got and can't produce themselves. Joel might be the first of a few to be approached but it could depend on how he and Eastmond go in their game.
If they both succeed then Union will be back big time. If they both disappear then that could put paid to raids for quite a few years.

I hope IL drives a hard bargain. Nothing less than £400k bearing in mind this is all about the money Union have that League hasn't!

No so.

The fact Sarries won't want to go to court makes Wigan's position [ivery[/i strong. They won't want to go to court not because they might lose and so would have to pay damages but because it would set a precedent for player contracts for any player in any sport including RU. It would in effect be like a new Bosmon ruling that said players can walk out on a contract at any time if compensation is paid regardless of the wishes of the club that holds their contract.

That is not in Sarries interests any more than it is Wigan's. Sarries do not want to be faced with French RU going after their players once they could see based on this case that it would be cheap to do so for example.

That doesn't mean they won't be daft enough to do it and not realise the implications but if it did go to court and went this way it [iwould[/i be setting a new precedent regarding sporting contracts. I do not think a judge would necessarily disregard the fact these are sporting contracts as opposed to normal employment contracts because of the implications I mention above. He could well rule in Wigan's favour or it would, as I said, set a new precedent.

So I think to suggest it is a forgone conclusion that Wigan will have to keel over for a relatively small fee because the courts do not offer a valid alternative is not correct.

If Joel had a few enemies around the town and the club wanted shut of him because his personal life was affecting team morale, then I'm pretty sure either him or his agent would be negotiating a pay-off based on the length of his contract.

For me, as soon as someone wants to pay Wigan the remainder of his contract then I'd let the lad leave. If he wants to leave that badly, then maybe he should buy his own contract out. If the figures quoted are correct, he'd make that back by the end of his 1st year.

Not sure I follow what you're saying about French RU - would the French RFU not respect an English RU club's registration?

I'm sure a judge would rule in Wigan's favour, by the way.

But if I were Sarries I would offer say £200k to settle Wigan's claim, if Wigan refused the offer and took the case all the way to court and were not awarded more than £200k by the court then Wigan would normally be liable for Sarries' costs (in addition to having to pay their own) incurred after the date of the offer.

That's why Wigan aren't in a strong position. The player just isn't worth much, you couldn't argue otherwise in court given the (relatively) small amounts British RL players like Joel are paid. If IL fights this he could end up with a legal bill bigger than the compensation for Joel leaving.

This whole situation is getting tiresome. The club should release an official statement either confirming or denying the talks. Everyone seem to know its true anyway through word of mouth but it would be nice to hear from the club on the matter.

We need an announcement that an announcement will soon be announced.

The question running around in my head is why sign a 5 year deal, knowing that if a bigger offer came in ie. RU or NRL for that matter, that you would want to leave?

Is there something going on behind the scenes at Wigan making the players feel un-easy or unhappy?

Maybe I'm just thinking too far outside the box but IMHO something just isn't right about him signing a 5year deal and then not long down the line wanting to leave.