alexandr Vinokourov - cyclist got found out with drugs (and still suspended)
now works with Astana team


perfectly fine and good news if The Sun is accurate. Nice to see (if true) we aren't dumping him on the scrap heap.

Absolute Scum!

I have no problem with the club doing this at all as long as Gaz really is truly sorry and stays well away from drugs.

It's not like he beat glassed a woman up or attacked a couple in an house, now that seems to be ok to carry on playing with the RFL.

The rules ands regs say this:

"A Person who has been declared Ineligible may not, during the period of Ineligibility, participate in any capacity in a Competition or other activity (other than authorised anti-doping education or rehabilitation programmes) organised, convened or authorised by the RFL or by any body or Club that is a member of, or affiliated to, or licensed by the RFL."

There is no way that allows Hock to work in the Junior Development setup.

In any case I am sure the parents of the juniors would be well pleased to have a player known to be be a drug user looking after their kids. He hasn't just cleaned up his act overnight and needs to be rehabilitated and there would need to be evidence he had succeeded in his rehabilitation before he could be let near the juniors. In fact I wonder if Hock would get CRB clearance to work with kids anyway.

So if the club think they have found a way around the above rule and want to try and use him in junior development they are misguided IMO.

Dave

I'm sure they know more about it than you.

Any decision they reach will be based on consultation with the appropriate people, not with some computer nerd who goes stampeding to the rulebook every time he wants to disagree with someone.

Trying to prevet Hock spiralling downwards into complete self-destruction seems to me a worthy ambition.

Well done to the club if true

Hocks made a mistake and will be punished by not playing for 2 years.

I laugh at the people who dont want to give him a second chance in life. theres murderers and rapist with second chances walking the streets far christsake.

There are players STILL playing after doing far far worse than Hock

Some of the best people to work in any form recovery programmes are the people with experience of not just being a drug user/alcoholic/burglar etc but who have proven that they have overcome their problems. This should be Hock's first priority, to show that for a lengthy period he is "clean" and is capable of being a role model to young players/drug users and so on. He would then become a positive influence for the club or community to draw on. I am not sure that a couple of weeks post ban qualifies him for that postion yet.

I think you need to remember what you said before you accuse someone of disagreeing with you.

You said "I'm not sure if they can legally make that work - I mean within the RFL's terms of legality..."

All I have done is confirm your opinion that it is against the RFL rules!

Now if you think the club know more about it, on what basis did you offer your opinion they could not do it in the first place?



I am also not the first one to point this rule out to users of the board so why don't you have a pop at W/L/A as he was the first one to do so when the idea was first suggested the club should employ him in some way?



And saying they should not employ him with the juniors does not mean they can't rehabilitate him in some other way.

Unless you can't understand what the rules say then it is obvious the club would need to find a way around this rule to employ him in the role suggested. If they have found such a way it won't affect what is written in the rules and they are written in plain English.

It is it merely a matter of opinion whether they should do that or not and no one needs a rule book to form an opinion on that.

I would not want Hock coaching my son if he was involved at Wigan. I am sure I am no the only parent who would think that.

Dave

Exactly my points in my earlier post in this this thread.

Dave

Exactly right. Being sorry for what has happened isn't the same as kicking the habit for good. He needs to prove he is free from the stuff before he does anything else.
He has to show everyone he has let down that he deserves a second chance, then and only then will people be prepared to give him that chance.

I don't think "free of the stuff" is the reality of it no matter how the spin doctors will have and will put it.

He wasn't an addict, he just could afford it, liked it and thought he would get away with it. It is the eqivalent of having an affair. Once you get caught the fun stops with a bang and reasons for your "weakness" come flooding out. If people still aren't sympathetic, check into The Priory.

It's a "want to" issue....not a "need to" one. Stupid...yes...Amy winehouse...no!

Hock was no more addicted to Coke than Riddell is to pies!

Lets put it into perspective. He should be banned for being so arrogant to have thought he could get away with it and then given a second chance in 2 years time like anyone else who does a self destructive crime.

That may be so but he needs to prove that it won't happen again. He needs help to resist it in the future and be able to resist the inevitable temptation. If he doesn't get some sort of councilling he could well be back in the same position.

Don't get me wrong I think if he proves he can do this he should be playing RL again in 2 years time and I've no problem with him playing for Wigan.

I said I wasn't totally sure what the ruling would be.

Then, in response to your usual negative anti-Wigan RL spin - "if the club think they can use this to get around the rules yada yada yada yawn yawn yawn" - I pointed out that whatever decision they eventually come to will be based on talking to the right people, because let's face it, they'll have no choice but to do that.

As for the other stuff - given how difficult it is for a lad to make it into the Scholarship ranks at Wigan, any parent who dragged him away again merely because Gareth Hock was still attached to the club would want his head seeing to.

If my son was in the wigan scholarship i would welcome gaz hock working with the lads.

Players from that age need to be warned about the dangers to the careers and most imporantly there health if they take drugs.And to be told from someone who drugs have almost destroyed his life can only help them

To see a fallen hero telling them the path he took is not worth risking it all is whats needed IMO

Yes.

I would hope he is allowed to have some kind of role within the club, it seems the most sensible solution.

This all comes down to the lad himself. If he is genuinely focused on changing his ways then as a society..never mind as a club!....we should be supporting that. If he proves himself worthy I, for one, will be applauding him should he step out onto the field in 2 years time a reformed character. More so if that's in a Cherry and White shirt!

Why? If Wigan hang him out to dry and have nothing more to do with him another club will pick him up in 2 years and reap the benefits.
At this moment the guy needs guidance and assistance.

Spot on

I've done loads wrong mate and taken responsibility for it all, fact is, if Gaz had not been caught he would still be doing it, theres too many gullible people out there that beleive what he has said in the paper, for the good of the club we should wipe our hands clean of him, no matter how talented he is, he has broken the law, if you get found out in a works drug test 97% of the time you will bne fired no matter how good at your job you are

No you said you didn't think they club could do it. You then changed your tune to indulge in one of your increasingly common little digs at me when you had no reason to do so. All I did was point out why your opinion the club could not do it was likely to be correct.



If the club has got any sense they won't present any parent with that dilemma.

As others have pointed just because Hock has been banned should not mean he is in a position to work on junior development as if this is some sort of rehabilitation in itself. Once he has been rehabilitated and proved himself clean he can set himself up as someone who has beaten the evils of drug use and be used in some sort of ant-doping role by the club or even the RFL if they want. He will be proved clean in two years having gone through the testing regime he must subject himself to and once he has got back playing.

I would be very surprised if the club would even try it never mind get it past the RFL and/or WADA as a an authorised rehabilitation program.

The idea that before the two years has passed he can be used in junior development and this is rehabilitation is IMO naive but if it happens then IMO it makes a mockery of the rules as they are written.

Dave

and that is the only reason why everyone is on the "Help save Gareth Hock Bandwagon", not because they genuinely care about him, they're just scared Leeds or Saints may sign him.

I think this is the key, Hock is elite, he is the top of the tree. No company in there right mind sacks there top man for such an offence if found out, you do not cut off your nose to spite your face. They may sack someone on the shop floor for the same offence, but not there top sales director who brings in the revenue to keep the business going, and is almost impossible to replace. Is it right? No, but we do not live in such an ethical world sadly.

Personally were it Fielden for example i am sure they would be gone, as its Hock, i understand the reason to stand by him even if it is perhaps not morally correct.

Okay, so you've taken responsibility for your wrong-doings. But Hock shouldn't even get the chance to take responsibility for his own?

There are people all over this country who've bounced back from far more serious offences and are holding down jobs and living decent lives.

Stop talking like the master of some Dickensian workhouse.

The guy's career is ruined, his name is mud - and you want him tarred and feathered as well.