How often is this 'fact' stated by the media though? This should be rammed down everyone's throat every day and night, time after time ad nauseum. This is the way out of this nonsense. I may be being a little cruel here, but I feel that the media are only interested in reporting the doom and gloom sensational aspects.....

the top and bottom of all this is, it's got absolutely nothing to do with anybody else over what other people have decided to do or not do for whatever their reason no matter how loud anybody shouts, judges or stereotypes others. People need to wind their necks in and stop butting in to other peoples personal choices whether you agree or not.

Nonsense.. when other peoples choices / actions result in possible negative changes to my and my families freedom and health, then I have every right to voice my concerns about their decisions.

Not really no.

It has everything to do with me when I have to WFH, can't go to the rugby or socialise with friends or family because some d! head won't get vaccinated.

Oh i see. I was going to leave it there because what i said was the right thing to say but seeing as you have poked the bear and me being one of those d! heads, let me address you.

There are a lot of fake facts being spouted on this thread and have been watching it for a few days but enough is enough. I had to speak. Let me tell you 2 absolute facts about Covid and Vaccination. In August we buried my grandad. He was as fit as a fiddle and always had been until he had his 2 jabs. From about May we could see the decline, it was very quick, all of a sudden he was very frail and very yellow. Test after test showed nothing until at the start of August the found it. A blood clot on his liver, just appeared out of nowhere and killed him. We wanted it investigating believing it's cause was the vaccine but they wouldn't do it. They hurried him into the ground and the mystery remains.

Fact 2. My auntie died the summer before last. She had terminal bladder cancer and took a turn for the worse so she had to go in for her final days. She and all the family knew what was happening but while she was in hospital she caught Covid. She finally succumbed to her cancer about a week after going in. When the death certificate arrived she had died of Covid-19 apparently. We tried to contest it but to no avail. Why? because that wasn't the reason she died.

I don't care if people label me, stereotype me, call me a 'Karen from Facebook' (i don't have Facebook incidentally, it's absolute twaddle) I have had two close contacts with this supposed mass killer. The killer that you can die of after already being killed in a car crash 28 days after having it. A virus that has made big pharma billions of pounds in income in vaccinations. A vaccination that is in an experimental phase until 2023 so nobody is liable until that year. If you have your life saving antidote after that date you will be able to sue those companies for some of those billions. This latest variant has been proven to be like a mild cold and has directly killed nobody so why the hysteria? Sure the media will tell you somebody died with it but not because of it. They love sensational stories like 'Suchabody dies after contracting covid' factually true but the covid was months before in one case so heavily bending the truth. Why do we only take the advice of one scientist when there are thousands of others out there saying different things? Why can't this be debated? Do we just listen to one person? Maybe the media have learned their lesson of listening to an opposing view. They gave people like Farage a platform during Brexit thinking there was no chance of the result they didn't want. Whoops, now those people have all been annexed and silenced by the main stream media. The same thing is being applied here. Striking fear into people and preventing them for seeing their families. I see people on their own driving their car with a mask on, what the hell. The government wants you to hide behind the sofa whilst they have garden parties, eye tests 300 miles away and 'cheese and wine' meetings. I can't remember the exact figure but it was certainly over 60% of the people in hospital are double or triple jabbed so what is the point? 'Get jabbed for your freedoms back' and you all fell for it, mugs. Everybody gave them that little bit of power and now they know they can push it whenever they want because the test of obedience was a general success. I know an awful lot of pro lockdown merchants who have now changed their tune though. What is the point in having a vaccination if you can still (allegedly) die, catch it and spread it? You will be in this cycle forever until some have the balls to say 'enough'. The people with the vaccination are the ones that are mutating the virus and creating different strains. We can go on and on and on and on. I can come back with many arguments but i won't be commenting further after this no matter what is said because this thread will roll to 100 pages if i do. It's time we moved on form all of this hyperbole and got on with life. Damaging your immune system by hiding away and not catching even a common cold is dangerous. You need those viruses to keep your immune system ticking over so i would say the ones who are complying are the ones more at risk. None of that e is being pumped into me no matter what they threaten us with. Covid passes etc etc. No problem, there will be fakes and stuff like that created. This will all blow over and take a back seat when the media find another story to push. Just as Covid took over from Brexit. When was the last time you heard about Brexit? So yes, i am a d! head. No problem. I will see you at the supermarket. You will be able to notice me. I am the one without the mask on. idiots.

The problem with threads like this, similar to Brexit, is they become toxic. I’ve a foot in either camp on this, I can see both sides and agree in part with both too.

Unfortunately this thread has devolved into “you’re a d*ckhead if you don’t have the vaccine” or “you’re a d*ckhead if you’ve had the vaccine”. Neither are d*ckheads. Like remainders/Brexiters weren’t. The only labelling of d*ckheads I’ll agree with is Tories and Tory voters. But that’s an even more toxic debate and inevitable argument.

For me this thread needs ending here. It’s doing no good for anyone. Leave this thread for The Sin Bin.

wow

pretty sure the government would rather be spending money on literally anything else than furlough and vaccinations at £15 a pop.

Any idea why life expectancy was 47 for a man a hundred years ago whereas it is 79 for a man now? (spoiler alert....it isn't because people in the 1900s hid away from diseases incl. common colds).

The stat 60% of covid hospitalisations being double jabbed, that has stuck in your head was an incorrect stat from a Downing press conference, later corrected, it was actually 60% of covid hospitalisations were unvaccinated - this was last July and as efficacy reduces with time, hence the need for a booster.

You also have seemed to mixed up Covid with the common cold and use the 2 interchangeably, the common cold is approximately 200+ different viruses loosely put under the umbrella for the common cold. We cant vaccinate against these for obvious reasons.

If unfortunately you do get covid and it affects you badly, i hope you have the good decency and the balls to stand up to the virus, saying 'enough is enough' and not to reply upon available drugs and hospital treatment......

With regards to Remain/Stay vaccine/anti-vax, could all be a Tory tactic to divide and conquer, not going particularly well at the moment as it seems to have divided the Tories to the point that the PM cannot govern for fear of losing the support of one or other faction..............

I am not arguing against vaccinations, I am saying they should be targeted at certain parts of the poulation. And, as for not suggesting an alternative I suggested herd immunity and focused protection.

Now, please explain the following to me:

1. What are the benefits of lockdown and how will such an action defeat this virus? If the whole of the UK population had all been confined to their homes from day one, for six months, would it have gone away?
2. Why the obsession with vaccinating everyone in the country and what will it achieve? Do you think variants that appear in other countries will not travel over the ocean? Do you believe that it will have an adverse effect on certain groups of people?
3. Is it necessary to jab every single person in the world (at least three times) to eradicate this disease? And, if so, do you actually think that it is achievable?
4. Why do you believe Sage, et al, when it is clear that many of their predictions have been way off the mark? Why not take a balanced view and look at what other scientists are saying and if their predictions better reflect the actual situation?
5. How many people have been hospitalised or died with Omicron in the UK to date (I asked you this previously but so far you have declined to answer)?
6. Finally, in one of your earlier posts you referred to conspiracy theories, which ones?

Anti vaxxers are just attention seeking bellends who listen to discredited doctors on you tube who are also seeking attention

1 its to stop the nhs being overwhelmed.
2 it speeds up the process to herd immunity
3 herd immunity needs 70 to 90% vaccinated to be effective.
4 sage supply data asked for by the government.
5 14 as of this morning
6 its government trying to control us,it big pharma to make millions its big tech to make millons, its a way to trace us, ect.. ect ect.

Thanks for your answers but they were posted for Natahan.

1. The NHS is overwhelmed every year it needs managing properly.
2. Well over 90% of the adult population has been vaccinated so why have we not achieved herd community?
3. See 2.
4. Well they shouldn't be because the data gives an incorrect position and it has always been wide of the mark, Google Professor Ferguson to see his stupid predictions.
5. Massive in the scope of things.
6. Do you believe in those conspiracy theories or is believing in Father Christmas more realistic.

So, based on your answers lockdowns and restrictions are not necessary?

I think Wales have got it right. No sport, no work just take a trip to the pub

To add to No5 - Yes there are people/outlets who got some numbers wrong recently in the media/government etc. and 90% of people going into Hospital are not Unvaccinated - The figure is more like 35% - However the %/No per 100,000 of unvaccinated being hospitalised is something like 5 x times the rate of vaccinated people i.e. and I'm just throwing No's here so don't pick holes in them!
If there are 50 million vaccinated There may be 2000 a day being admitted
If there are 5 million not vaccinated there may be 700 a day being admitted

If 55 million hadn't been vaccinated there would be nearly 8000 a day being admitted and so on the number further down the chain in ICU & then Deaths would increase.

However - The number of people going into ICU I believe is more like 87% unvaccinated.

What I will predict is that people will use the methods/reasoning in the answers you provided in Answer no6 and twist & manipulate more numbers and figures to try & suit their Anti Vax, Anti Government (I hate them BTW, but that should not alter how we view the scientific evidence & Data), Anti MSM (This one really makes me laugh!!!) blah blah blah agenda.

What will happen is people who want the answer to be different will use Whataboutery and it's impossible to keep up with it. because to ask 100 stupid questions takes 10minutes - To provide 1 accurate Fact may take Hours!!!

If anyone is undecided please don't look at anything I or anyone else on here has written, go look at REPUTABLE SCIENTIFIC outlets etc. to make your mind up. But be careful, there are always the Andrew Wakefields of this world out there.

What’s covid on your aunts death certificate got to do with you having the vaccine, or not?

Condolences for the two losses you’ve suffered.
I understand the link you’ve made with your grandad but for the life of me I can’t fathom why the aunt thing means you shouldn’t have a vaccine and therefore I can’t do feck all in my day to day life, now?

its been the same for over 100 years in this country, if you've died during a pandemic ONE of the causes of deaths goes down as that, on the certificate there can be more than one

Exactly.

Don’t think that Pie_Eyter really knows what he’s saying or the reasoning. Makes no sense at all.

Germany and Israel looking at second booster.

JCVI in the UK are looking into it.

Coming from an absolute gimp like you that is high praise so thank you. 13 pages of bollox and finger pointing before i posted so hardly attention seeking is it. I hate this Anti-vax label. i have given you reasons why i am not taking it. Only people with a complete lack of intelligence would challenge it. It's my choice and it has cock all to do with anybody else.

Firstly thank you for your condolences. It wasn't made up.

I don't understand why it was on there. It isn't what she died of so why declare it as that? It's manipulating the figures for whatever reason. The goal posts keep moving on covid deaths, soon it will be 'withiin 1 year of a positive test etc etc' We have to move on. Where are we in relation to 2 years ago? nowhere. If it wasn't in the media nobody would be even talking about it. And the people saying my sources are from youtube etc etc, you are the stereotypical brain dead morons i was talking about. Do a bit of research.

Erm. Right.
Let’s try again. One more time;

What does it have to do with you having the vaccine or not?

What is the UK governments incentive to manipulate the figures?

What is any governments incentive to manipulate the figures?

You are wrong. Again, I repeat, When your decision and other flat-earthers has the potential to affect the health and freedom of myself and my family, I have every right to comment.

I think the same goes for you Nathan, I am still waiting for you to answer the questions I posed!!!!

You seem to be suggesting that there are conspiracy theories at work?

Don't tell the lockdown king, Mark Drakeford.

We were told by the Health Secretary that the number of Omicron cases would double daily, therefore we should have seen 1.2 million people infected today. Guess what we have not!!! If that is not bad enough, the first man to die of Omicron as announced by the PM didn't!!!

There is a lesson to be learned here by the Government don't believe all that you are told and check your facts. Maybe listening to Professor Ferguson and his friends is not to be recommended!