I don’t buy the Bateman, Isa and Farrell are too small line. I don’t get it at all when anybody says it. A giant making 100 metres a game is 100 metres and if a midget makes 200 metres, its 200 metres. They’re not dominated in defence, they make more ground than their opposite numbers in the vast majority of games and as a three they’ll comfortably be the best in the comp when they’re at 11, 12 and 13.

I don’t think we need to look for issues that aren’t there. There is one glaring issue and that is the lack of one bruising prop through the middle to use at the start of games. It’s encouraging IMO that what we need is so obvious. A better goal kicker wouldn’t go amiss but ultimately we have one hole in the team when everyone is fit and available. We can get better with the ball in attack but that was going to be naturally clunky to star with, when you’re minus French, Gildart, Manfredi, Marshall etc and are playing forwards in the back spots.

So the things we do well are down to the assistant and the things we do poorly are down to the coach. What are you basing this on?

Lam's none-existent attacking philosophy saw us score the second most points in the league last year. We're not playing free flowing stuff right now but I wouldn't expect us to in round 3 with so many backs missing. He has adapted his strategy to the circumstances to find a way to still win. I'll worry about style points in the summer when we have had time to shake off the rust and have some backs available.

I really don’t understand Wigan fans desire to make up new scenarios which we can only speculate about.

Very similar on social media.

If and so and so didn’t play so and so did then what would happen?!

It’s a nonsense of which we can only speculate and never get an answer.

What did happen we played with the team we did and we won comfortably without exerting too much energy and not fully firing in attack against a team that had Saints troubled at times last week.

I didn’t at any stage see us losing that game.

It was a solid if not spectacular performance and something to build on.

I’d say we have improved week on week in 2021 and I think there is plenty more to come, which is encouraging.

If that is true, not saying it is it isn’t, but if it is doesn’t Lam being the head coach deserve credit for delegating those duties to other coaches?

I’m basing it on it is their area of expertise. Before Peet came back our defence was pretty average so with no defensive coach I’d park that at Lam’s door.
The head honcho in any organisation worth it’s salt picks up the accolades when things go well and his or her P45 when things go wrong.

What is his philosophy? On Wigan tv for two and a bit years he’s been going on about how he tells the players what he wants and expects. I haven’t got a clue other than give it to Hastings as many times as we we can.

You can have as many backs available as you want but tagged with our pack then I feel we are short of being top dogs and will remain so until it is resolved which won’t I suspect be before 2022

Let’s see how we do over the next 3 weeks when we play a couple of decent teams

So where’s your scenario of not getting out of 3rd coming from? You are surely just speculating that without any evidence.

How about we were playing a team with no playmaker and their second game in six days and were incapable of playing better?

So you think that our performances against York and a depleted Leeds were better than our performance against Wakefield?

We’ve played 4 poor or weakened teams and in 320 minutes we’ve been on the back foot for the majority of the minutes.

I understand the injuries but what I think is that even at full strength we will fall short.
Peopare also assuming that Marshall and Manfredi will just slip back in with assured ease. Manfredi has hardly play for 4 years and maybe his best days unfortunately are behind him and Marshall may have lost that vital pace he had.

I’m basing it on the fact we never had to lift the intensity.

Do I think we played better last night than we did against Wakefield? Yes.

Don’t really count York as it’s a different competition.

Wakefield are a bottom 2 side. Leeds will be too 4 or 5.

3 from 3 and in the cup showing glimpses of pure quality but playing within ourselves as I see it.

I think we will have a more realistic view of where we are in the next month but so far I don’t see too much to moan about.

Icing on the cake would be a quality Prop becoming available however I think we may have to wait a little longer for that to happen.

Will have to disagree on Bateman Farrell and Isa. Yes the issue is at prop but that back three won’t improve the situation.

A lack of a decent kicker goes back to 2013 the lack of decent props predates that.

Teams will find us out. They will all play too our weakness which is in the middle. I don’t think we can defend at the current intensity throughout the full length of the season.
Hope I’m wrong but unless Bullock is holding back then apart from Harvard and maybe Byrne the rest of the front row options are far too weak.

You cannot ignore York just because it was the CC

Like you I was relaxed that we wouldn’t lose last night because they had zero options on the last in practically every set of six. More a case of their inadequacies than our capabilities

Agree with you 100% about the next month or so.

I’m not complaining just think that this will be another year under Lam where we will fall short when it really counts

Journeymen forwards? Most of them came through our own academy.

It will definitely be interesting to see how the backline is adapted if French and Manfredi are OK for next week. French straight to fullback or replacing Hanley on the wing? Bibby to centre or keep him on the wing? Farrell or Isa if we only need one stand in centre?

French
Bibby
Zak
Faz (purely because it's the left side)
Dom

Back 3 of:

Isa
Smithies
Bateman

I do wonder which side a Manfredi will go on considering he’s normally a right sided winger and Bibby has been so good on that side. Add in the struggles Bibby had on the left in the friendly and it may well be that Manfredi switches. Reading between the lines in the bits I’ve seen it does sound like he may be another week yet but we’ll see.

I’m not ignoring York. I thought we went ok and did a professional job. We certainly weren’t poor.

It was similar to the game last night we never had to dig in because they never looked like challenging us.

Bibby and Zak went well last year so leave them there. Although, Bibby did play left side for Salford so I'm not sure it would be too much of a struggle for him to move.

My personal view is that Hardaker may actually be better on the wing than at centre. Great under the high ball, would return kicks strongly and be a more than decent finisher.

I'd be tempted to go:

French
Manfredi
Isa
Bibby
Hardaker

But swap Hardaker and Bibby and I think you have Lam's preferred backline (without Gildart and maybe Marshall).

Wigan forwards with more than 15 apps for 3+ clubs - John Bateman, Mitch Clark.

Edit - I've just been surprised to learn that, according to the dictionary, journeyman doesn't mean a player who plays for many clubs. Apparently it actually means 'A worker or sports player who is reliable but not outstanding'. Maybe he has a case after all.

I would say that Liam Farrell is better than Bateman

I was pleased with last nights game and performance. We are exactly where we need to be at this stage in the season with so many players out.

The only worrying thing for me is hardakers kicking. It is not good and could cost us one day. I don’t care if he’s the best one knocking them over in training, he isn’t doing it when it matters and needs to give someone else a go. There’s been 2 the past 2 weeks that haven’t even made the distance.

Yep that is exactly what I meant.
Guilty as charged m’lud.
Bateman and Farrell aside that is exactly what our pack is. Hopefully young Havard will join that duo.

Having journeymen is not a disparaging remark in fact all good teams need them particularly in a capped sport.
We just have too many for the prop position and to a lesser degree in the second row. We don’t have a loose forward of any description. Powell is decent but just short of being top class.

Our work ethic and discipline for me is the best in the competition but unfortunately for us that usually isn’t enough to win silverware.

I think in defence of Lennigan and Radlinski the unlikely act of Hastings actually triggering his 2nd year option probably derailed any plans in acquiring a new decent prop.
Offsetting that is the fact that the club thought that Clark was good enough and now apparently Clubb is good enough to go around for yet another season.

It does if you're American. I'm not American.

I’ve used journeymen for decades to describe decent players but not at the highest standard.
It’s definitely used in boxing parlance.
It’s used differently in soccer. Maybe you’re a soccer fan

Exactly, I don't care who makes the metres. it doesn't matter

Defiantly a British term for a time served tradesman who is good but maybe not the best.

Seems to have become a derogatory term when it’s intention is actually complimentary.

Only ever heard it used to describe someone with multiple clubs and little success or in boxing for someone with multiple fights and little success. I have no idea what "soccer" is.

I still don't think our pack is full of journeymen whichever definition we use.