it's a good job most of the negative fans on here weren't born near any club who hasn't won anything for 20+ years they would be suicidal or organising a lynch mob for the owner and coach.

I've been following Wigan home and away since 2001, including 7 seasons in a row without a trophy. I went to 70-0 and 75-0. The difference now is we have a squad which should be winning trophies, and certainly shouldn't be getting knocked out of the challenge cup by Cas and Hull KR in consecutive seasons.

Cas are a decent side. OK, we shouldn't have lost to HKR, but are we only allowed to lose to Leeds and Saints, then? The fixture list wouldn't look much fun. Like all fans, I want to my side to win as much as possible, but I don't want to see (effectively) a three-team league, which is what you seem you be pointing towards.

Still, if I find the threads here too depressing, I can always look at the league table to cheer myself up...

Firstly, there's no need to shout. Second, the middle group of 30% are waiting to see if we improve, not win something. There is no mention of "winning something or he's out". Third, neither you nor I know if any of the current anti Wane group were ever pro Wane. There are some who have never liked him so can't be classed as fickle if they voted against him, can they? Sorry to be pedantic about it, but there you go.

Keep him. For the amusement value he offers.

Have Wigan won something in the last few years . I must have been stuck on the M6 travelling South .

I really must keep up to date .





Regards , EW

This is about loyalty, but the question is who are you loyal to, the club or Wane? If Wane isn't performing it's harming the club, Wigan's goal is always the same thing; to win, win games, win silverware. If Wane can't deliver then we must say goodbye and stand by the club.

No player or coach is bigger than the club. It sounds like if Wane left and went to coach Leigh for example, you'd be loyal to him and support Leigh.

Loyal 18 is about being loyal to Wigan, not Wane.

So was I
And trust me neither of those was worse to me than being stood at Hunselt in 1981 and watching their fans offering bets giving Wigan 6 start!!!
relegation at Cas 6/7 months earlier was unbelievable, numbing like you were in some kind of Nightmare!
God knows how the fans who could remember the 50/60's felt! It was bad enough being 9/10 and going through it!

We had a squad in 86 & 87 that should have won the Challenge Cup but were knocked out by Cas at home in 86 & OLDHAM 87 (

Shudder! Still have sleepless nights)!!!!!!!
We didn't win League or CC in 86 & Yes the club did go and get Lowe the year after but he didn't win the league in year 2 or 3 (Albeit to a very good Widnes team 88/89).

I grew up watching Wigan from 77 and through to 83 They won Nothing (ZIP,ZERO, F All) and even then 83 -86 We only won 1 CC (JP Trophy & a Lancs cup) in 4 seasons which although in a rebuilding phase we'd actually splashed LOTS of cash and broke transfer records numerous times!
But I & I think Most people understood it & appreciated it.
For those who had seen the club not win a League or Challenge cup in 20 years it was like Heaven!

The Gang of 4 took over 80/81 ish and we have to go to 1987 to really see the impact of their decision making (You could argue a further 10 years on from that for the financial repurcussions need not be forgot when analyzing the success in that period also for perspective reasons!).
That's 7 years, They went through 4 other coaches before arriving with Lowe who was the 5th.
IL has just had 7 years and won 2 Chalenge cups, 2 SL Titles and 2 League leaders - I think that compares favourably and with 3 caches in that period each getting 2 years with Wane having 3 then I don't think he has been either over Harsh or afraid to make change if needed.

I know I'll get ripped to shreds by those who think nothing but Success every year will do!
And
Probably get ripped to bits by those who think you should be loyal no matter what!

But the truth has and always will be the Art of managing both IMO
You chop and chage every year looking for perfection and you create a culture were people have little loyalty to the club and the lack of long term planning affects the club down the line.

You hang on too long and the Rot starts to set in and can take a long time to turn round.

This may seem like sitting on the fence but unless there is a better alternative out there who IL thinks can BOTH improve 1st team results & Performances AND & this is a big [size=200AND[/size work within his vision and structures that he has been working on for the club behind the scenes inc. youth & recruitment structrues then I am prepared to live with the odd Hiccup (2 x semi defeats in year 1 - Cas loss in Year 3 - HKR Loss & Cats Away year 4 for example) when I balance it with other positives that this set up have brought such as Further investment and opportunities for youth, the Double, Some of the most open and exciting rugby conssitantly seen at Wigan (Bearing in mind Salary cap restrictions etc.) and a by & large profitable club with a Genuine Bright long term future then I'm happy to continue along this path.

Comparisons
Leeds - McDermott out is the obvious one linking into the thread title on their board for the last 3/4 years but to be fair to the bloke with every set back they've had they've also bounced back and won something soon after. He's entering the next phase now with th transistion from the Golden Generation to bringing through the Youth that He has had the time to select & ground. 2 Grand Finals & a CC for me is fair return and I think they should give him time to oversee the next 2 seasons.

Wire - Tony Smith - provided immediate success with 2 CC's but has been unable to overcome the "It's always your Year Hoodoo" although has won a 3rd CC.
He's in his 7th year now and has over the last 12 months and the next 12 months had to & got to oversee the transistion from the Old Brigade that brought that short term success to the New Blood and he hasn't done it yet.
Does he get time to do it? There's already some mutterings within the fans? Has he stagnated?
How will his tenure be viewed and comparibly how do Wolfs see their future and the way he has the club structured for the years ahead?

Saints - Too early yet for Cunningham but Theyv'e struggled with 4/5 coaches in last 7 years to fins the right formula. Achieved success last year by hook or by crook (I say fair play to em given a lot of the issues they had to overcome) and again how do they view their chances moving forward?

How do we compare that with our set up & Structure?
Overall I wouldn;t swap any others for ours with or Without Wane in charge and I'm happy for that.

As I say appetite for Success/Loyalty has to be managed carefully but I believe Wane is still in the positive side of things and in the current cliamte with 2 trophies per year (Realistically as I'm not counting LLS) then I believe winning 1 a year otherwise you're deemd not good enough is not a Fair way to judge things.

I believe A Final in the majority of years and a trophy 1 in 2/3 years is what is achievable consistantly but there are so many variances and other things to bear in mind when reflecting on someones tenure.

Good post. A bit long, but a good post.

Well said Jukes.

I am one who started watching around 1957/8 time.
When people were complaining before about being knocked out of the C Cup 2 years running it reminded me that we went 20 years from 1965 before winning the trophy again.
That did seem a very long time then. It now seems a long time ago.

Thing is with Shaun Wane, he's no different from other Wigan coaches in that he's expected to reach finals and win trophies regularly.
If he does he's safe,
If he doesn't he isn't safe.
No one will know that better than Shaun.

Jukesays .
That's about the best posting I have ever seen on all the forums. As a rhinos fan (formerly Leeds RL) I had the dubious pleasure of seeing us years ago being beaten on a regular basis by all and sundry in lancashire. So our recent success has been well worth waiting for.
When I saw the knives out for Cunningham at saints I thought that was poor form.
The lads in his first season give him a break.

Ahem

Wigan won't win another trophy whilst SW is head coach....

How long will it take SW to realise Joel Tomkins can't pass off his left hand, not good when you're playing right centre.

Very poor team selection tonight - Bowen should not have played both last Sunday and tonight. ( See post on Bowen thread).
Wane's blind loyalty to Smith and Powell is at times incomprehensible. A big ( 4 prop/second row bench) worked against Leeds. This is what Saints had and Roby played the full 80. MM may need a short rest ( as he did for 10 minutes against Leeds) but using Powell as a bench 9 is a luxury we can't afford. Sutton should have been on the bench to add some much needed size.
The above contributed to Wigan's defeat just as much as the appalling individual errors. And surely Rocky at 6 and Williams at 7 is worth a go? They can't be more ineffective than the current combination. Smith has been disappointing far too often this season - the argument that he brings much needed experience to the team doesn't stand up if he doesn't bring any tangible benefits to the performance of the team.

Absolutely not the case.

They took over when you say but we got to Wembley in 1984 to lose to Widnes. We won it in 1985 and you suggest it took to 1987 to see the impact?

Seven years my backside. You are making stuff up so you can agree with yourself.

Wigan need to get rid of SW.
A once very attractive team to watch has become the total opposite.

Whilst typing I was more certain that you would be the one to respond in this fashion than I was that Mugwump would suddenly appear after 2 months away if saints won last night.

I thought coming runner up in a comp didn't satisfy your lofty high standards Dave?
Which but am I "making up so I can agree with myself" comments are you talking about?

You can believe what you want, it took till 1987 to make Wigan the no1 side.
Along the way there were many blips, dissect it as much as you want but we did lose to cas and Oldham, we did win only 1 CC, we didn't win the league etc
So 1 CC was good enough back then but 2 and 2 league titles isn't now?

You can argue and think what you like and to be honest I couldn't care less.
But I won't take making things up to suit myself which is basically saying selective memory from one of the 2 biggest guilty parties of that (the others on the other board after being banned from here and most people know who I mean).

So go on rip me to shreds, it'll probably be my grammar next.
On the other board I gave my views a couple of months back about Wanes high risk game.plan and that I actually agreed in large parts with cpw.
I just don't agree with the turn everything and slant it and ram it down everyone's throats a million times to suit your agenda and cpw does that far too much.

Wanes got some time, how much it 1 man knows.

I'm just prepared to take the rough which there's not been much (and if you think there has then go back 30/40 years and think how bad that was or imagine supporting Leigh, Batley, Swindon, clubs that have had real problems) with the smooth and 2CC and 2 GFs plus 3/4 other trophies i.e. lls and finals is not bad in my book.

I've always had impeccable timing.

I'm not a fan of all this witch hunting that always seems to happen after we have been beat by the scousers. It must be said the if the result had gone in our favour we would NOT be talking our voting on keeping or getting rid of SW !!!

Its like we just want to press the self destruct button.... And worse still are the pr _ cks from the other forums chucking in their three penny's worth, just to wind us up even more!

Time to move on, I've already forgot about Friday... As Arnie said in the terminator "Sh _ t Happens" We'll av em next time!!!

The whole subject on Wane should be aired at the end of the season looking back on our results, But I'll pretty much guarantee that if we finish top & win the grand final the subject will not be mentioned.








=#FFFFFF.

And yet we were talking about it well before the Saints game. You're right, obviously no one will want rid of him if we win the Grand Final, it's a results based job!

Well there have been some real lows this season but tonight plumbed new depths, truly awful to watch.

Looks like a lot want to keep Wane.

More to the point how long will it be before Joel realises he is no Lionel Messi and stop trying that awful little grubber kick that carries no weight or direction.