What does this partnership seem? So far all I have heard is it will be back room staff exchanging ideas. I am blowed if I know what they can teach us.

In general these partnerships get mentioned every now and again. Links with NL1 sides, links with an NRL side and now a link with an RU side. They never seem to come to much and IMO that is because they are impractical and both sides soon realise the are more trouble than they are worth if they get off the ground at all.

Given Sarries are 200 miles down M6/M1 its hardly going to be a close working relationship is it. They train at Hertfordshire Uni (great facilities BTW was there a few weeks ago with my son) but we are hardly going to pop down on a Tuesday to use the gym!

Was it Adam Smith or David Ricardo who said something along the lines of - when you see two businessmen working together you can bet someone's being ripped off. In my mind the word "partnership" implies not just a mutually beneficial exchange but an equally one. Given that one element of this partnership operates under the umbrella of an organisation whose apparent goal is to leech talent away from Wigan (as well as SL as a whole) I doubt very much Wigan will gain from this little venture as much as Saracens.

At the very least it gives them networking ties that either didn't exist before or were conducted through several intermediaries. And when it comes to tapping up players networking is the name of the game.

last week someone intimated that Salford were getting into bed with the devil if they sanctioned a ground share with Sale RU.Speaking as a RL fan I would never trust anything rugby union.Having said that I agree that a man of Mr ILs business acumen would not do anything purposely to the detriment of Wigan,but I still dont trust RU one bit

I think it may be a security really. If, say Bath, come in for one of our youngsters we can say to them "hey want to go on loan at Saracens try it out first? Dont rush into things" Saracens can do that for us. Also if Bath, Sale etc came in for a big name we could say "no we only deal with Saracens" if Saracens dont want said player then we keep him. It also means that to maintain a good link Saracens may be more willing to wait until a contract ends.

We would have said this 2 years ago as well but then we got Bitcom from RU and according to most he's been a revelation to RL.

Well Wigan have certainly gained some publicity. its not long ago when when posters were seeing the links with G Thomas as a means to get at the RU production line in Wales.

On a related point, has anybody seen anything in relation to Wigan retaining Joel's RL registration - so that if he wants to come back to RL part way through, we get first refusal?

sound like being an aquiesant poor relation

IMO the advantage of taking players from each other is hugely stacked in RU's favour. The players RL are likely to take are the lads who aren't really going to cut it in kick n clap, they may turn out to be superstars in league but still it'll be no big loss to kick n clap on the other hand they will probably be only looking to take the established players or hot prospects from our game.

Where did Mark Bitcon come from?

It will raise the profile of Wigan Warriors specifically and RL generally to the rah rah fans. A few might start to keep an eye out for our scores and maybe even watch a match or two. Coaching methods will be shared.

Few comments about our players joining them - well even though we might think it - not every RL player will make a good yawnion player, so I don't think we have to worry too much about that.

IL's not daft, so it will be to our benefit as well.

IL is not stupid he has great business sense and more than anything the passion for Wigan to do well and win things. People questioned when Madge was appointed and look how that went, there is no way Wigan will not benefit just as much as Saracens and your crazy if you think otherwise

Gloucester.

What we can learn from them is how to market big events. They got much bigger crowds than we ever get for their game at Wembley. I think they have done it twice. They are doing it again this year I think on the 10th of December for a match against Ospreys and then again in early 2012 for a game against Quins. Huge events like that are great for publicity, it is something their marketing staff could help us with. Our club needs to build our brand outside of Wigan.

Saracens attendance at the weekend 6012. The one before that 4500. Crowds lower than Wakey, other than the odd one off promotion.
Here's hoping that Joel enjoys project Saracens and doesn't progress to the next level.

Don't think I've ever seen so many toys thrown out of so many prams in ages.

After all that IL has done for Wigan many of you still don't trust him, it seems.

Paranoia rampant in the People's Republic!

RUGBY UNION

what do i win?

Hang on, just 14 years ago they were playing games at Bramley Road where the capacity was 2,000. They have come a long way since then so they must be doing something right.

They have moved numerous games to Wembley and despite getting only 4k at home for some games, they are able to get crowds of over 40,000 sometimes even up to 50,000. Thats higher than the 3 best Rugby League sides in the world could manage plus Wales for a double-header. I for one would love our club to see how they do it. How about moving the big one to Old Trafford and seeing 50k turn up for a Wigan game? That would raise our profile. It is not just Sarries who are doing this, Harlequins have had even bigger crowd at Twickers for some of their games, 70k+.

Imagine if Wigan could increase interest of 'The big one 4' and have it at Old Trafford. If they can suddenly get 10 times their home support then I'm sure we could at least double our average and get over 30k and fill the bottom tier at OT or the two bottom tiers at Eastlands.

RU clubs are miles ahead of RL clubs in terms of marketing, Wigan are capable of achieving great things with the brand we have and the success we have.

For this reason it could be a great move for us.

So with all this money and world class marketing all they can do is promote a one-off match (not numerous matches) which appeals to the same captive audience of Hooray Henrys as normally populates Twickenham.

A few quotes from the Sarries web site comments under the two days announced for them playing at Wembley 2011/2012

"I gather the exercise is to get more people coming to VR. So far not really noticed a rise in spectators. Wembley is good as a one-off experience, but the crowds there are going down, not up."

"can't see the point in Wembley anymore as from what seems to be the general concesus is that it's run its course. Although the entertainment is good there are no decent pubs near the ground the food & drink inside is very poor and expensive, travel to and from is a joke and the crowds are dwindling so can anyone tell me why?"

"No atmosphere at Wembley. The crowd is there for the entertainment and last season about half the folk seated near me left after the Half Time entertainment. The "support staff" are unhelpful. I don't like being treated as a potential soccer hooligan. Last year I was told the programme I pay for in advance I could ask to be sent to me AFTER THE MATCH. Why do we have to go back there? [iMost of the tickets are given away anyway, so it can't be a money spinner. [/iIt galls me that I have to pay full price for any visitors who sit with me (because I have a platinum season ticket) whereas other season ticket holders are upgraded for free and get huge discounts on family and friends tickets. And now we're going to play a Heineken Cup match against Biarritz IN SOUTH AFRICA? What's the point of that. Who's lost the plot? I don't think it's me!"

There are a couple of positive comments on the site but it does not seem their fans think it is a marketing success does it!

On the whole they seem pretty cheesed off with the whole exercise and are reacting no different to how we would if IL told us we were off for a "home" game down to South Wales.

So no, I don't think we can learn a lot except not to do as you say and (pointlessly) move fixtures to OT.

The difference is that we would be doing it added to the success we have already had. How did they get so many people to buy tickets for a RU match? They must be doing something right. I'm sure our club could do it even better.

I did say at the time that IL should have been braver and done a Maurice Lindsay in taking the Manley match to Man City's ground. Risky, would have meant a lot of work but the potential rewards would have been worth it.

I think you mean the St George game.

Leeds move their WCC games to a bigger stadium and always achieve a higher crowd than the capacity of their home ground. Maybe it should have been looked into, I'm sure it would have been. It would be interesting to know why they decided against it.

Them like England RU, Barbarians, Army vs Navy etc manage to attract fans to this big events somehow even though they are not union fans and they only ever go to these big events. The Marketing guys for these events must be great at their jobs as they make people want to go and attend these big games!

Saracens can get 50,000 at wembley for a one off game but how many of these are fully fledged fans who now go and watch saracens on a weekly basis?

Well given their average gate, about 6000!

I suppose that means they have fewer fans to annoy when games are moved to Wembley.

So as some of the comments from the Sarries fans themselves that I quoted said, the Wembley games are not translating into fans going each week.

And by the sounds of it even the Wembley crowds are dropping off in numbers and include a lot of give away tickets.

I fail to see the point of moving games to other venues if any new fans gained are few and far between and the evidence shows Sarries are NOT gaining any new fans because of these games.

It is not surprising really because anyone who finds it easy to get to Wembley isn't necessarily going to want to go up to Sarries and back again.

So what we can learn off Sarries is obvious. Don't move games to big venues and expect to get any new fans despite how many may turn up using the free tickets you gave out.

I much prefer our "Big One" idea that gets fans into [uour own ground[/u. Encouraging them to come [ithere[/i is what you want. Not turning up once or twice a year at OT or wherever.

I would say that after spending something like £20 million + in that time that to still only be averaging 6,000 is quite a failure. Also each of those games at Wembley are losing a fortune and the Saracens fans complain that the 'additional' new fans only come for the pre-match entertainment. You could have paid 10,000 fans £100 a year just to watch them and got a better return on what Saracens have done