To be fair Jonh!

We have to put up with Far too much "Sack the Coach" from the Quick Fix Brigade (And believe it or not depsite your stance on Noble I don't put you in with this lot) that after a few good wins it's no wonder they/we want to give some back!

I have said it Many Many times before, Particularly on the "Turning the Ship Around" post that Rome was built in a day.

It took ML 8 years from coming in to winning the League, We had 4 coaches in that period taking one step at a time.

IL chose to stick with Noble for his 2 x seasons in charge of Wigan. IL must have thought that a certain amount of stability could be gained from this and at that point he may have been right.

Will he stick with him for the next 2 x seasons? Not sure?
What I will say is I don't agree that Sacking him at virtually any point in the last 2 x years like some have wanted would have helped us Short term.

Then there's the question of Who would want to come as if they were'nt successful (Positive Points difference is a must for some

) immediately the fans would have been shouting for him to be sacked and the chairman Bows down to their wishes!

We've been there before!

RJH you have been on here just very quiet on any Noble related issue, and just like last time after the Bradford game you decide to pipe up and have a pop. You seem to take an issue with anyone that does not share your opinion. The difference is between me and you i hope i am wrong for the good of the club you just seem to want to play the big I AM after 1 game.

Did i say he could not coach attacking rugby in that post, what i am saying is he is clearly at times sent us out with the wrong game plan, given the way we have proven we can perform.

You called them poor players and a bunch of no hopers or words to that effect, do you stand by this?

Not once have a said i know better, but it is refreshing to see things that me and others highlighted as wrong with the gameplan these things have changed or at least do seem to when we play well.

Still waiting for you to pull out this post that you continue to quote where i said it was luck that he won trophies at Bradford something you seem to base much of your criticism of me about.

Brian Noble has in my opinion done some good things that would indicate to me he would be better as a Rugby Director rather than a coach.

He along with Il have put together some excellent systems that have ensured the infrastructure is there for us to make the next step, that is without question, especially given the state of the club on his arrival behind the scenes.

What i do doubt is his ability to take us to the next step and a once in a blue moon game when we are still in 9th with a game played over most other teams will not short term convince me he can be the man to kick us on.

The point being that it isn't just about Saturday's win, but the manner in which we've started to play. Oh, and I know life begins and ends with Saints, but our 'run' started 2 matches before the derby!

The only thing that I have real issue with regarding this debate is the use of that particular statistic. Whilst I agree in a 'black and white' world that would indeed be a reasonable argument, surely the point here is not where we stand after a poor start to the season, but how we appear to be going now and if this will continue? More to the point, given the obvious fact that most teams are having runs of poor form this season, something that I personally don't think we have seen the end of, surely the only statistic worth considering is where we will finish come the end of the season and whether that will be enough to take us to a final or even win some silverware..

I agree with you, though the point I would make is that where we are likely to be at the end of the season will be in part determined by the shockingly bad start to the season.

And there's nothing we can do about it Now!

So lets not keep going over old Ground Like some do and look at what we have to do next week!

Putting it into perspective though exactly how have we started to play? We have played well in 2 games, a coach has to get his team to somewhere near there best for at least 70% plus of the season. We have played well on 2 occasions out of 12 and it is a story that is repeating itself season on season sadly. The consistency issue is massive and it seems to be getting worse not better. Consistency was also a massive issue with him for GB.

Was he the right man to bring stability to the club? Yes, but is he the man to take us to the next level? No.

LOL IN YOUR OPINION. You told us he could not coach exciting/attacking rugby yet this season we have shown on more than one occasion that he can. Whilst your entitled to your opinion, i think i speak for pretty much everyone when i say we are bored to tears of hearing your opinion of Brian Noble time and time again. Your like a stuck record going over the same thing. Despite you trying to worm your way out of it in the past you have said Noble won things at Bradford by luck. No i cannot be bothered to search through pages of past posts because theres so many of yours having a go at Noble that it would take me forever to find it. If your expert opinion of him not being able to take us to the next level is as accurate of your early season opinion that he could not coach attacking/exciting rugby then i think we would all be wise to take your opinion with a very large dose of salt!

You have already tried to find it and failed.

I do not share your opinion of him only time will tell who is right. What i do find very sad is that you only chose to post after a good win ie twice all year, yet cannot deffend or criticise after a shocking coaching performance.

What i did say just so you can use it for future knowledge is that Brian Noble took on many of the principles and structures put into place by other coaches, at no point did i mention luck nor did i mention i could do any better. Recently i have been critical of our defensive structure, something that often when we play well is different to when we play poorly, our lack of dummy runners has been an issue as has the enthusiasm and motivation of the team.

From the report in the paper Noble feels like he has to speak out to say he wants to say so clearly he appreciates his future is in the balance.

Here is the thing that i must emphasis I DO NOT WANT NOBLE TO FAIL, i want him to be the Wigan coach for the next decade, but to do that he has to earn that right by producing a team that can consistantly perform to its best which clearly we have not done or got anywhere near.

Your immature nature of making the cameo digs when ever they do play well makes me smile, its a good job myself others who disagree with you do not come on and have a pop at you after a poor performance or thats all we would have time to do.

Noble may well prove me wrong i dearly hope he does but forgive me for not doing cartwheels for us producing 3 acceptable performances in 12, (Bradford and both Saints games). Especially given the fact we sit in 9th and all the other big teams round us are finding consistent form in Wire and Bradford and have a game in hand over us.

I also love the arrogance of you speaking for everyone else on the forum!!

To put another perspective on this debate:

A few weeks ago it was widely rumoured Noble had lost the dressing room and had told the team that he was leaving. Since then we have played very good rugby. Could it be that Shaun Wane has now taken on more responsibility and the players are reacting to that? If that is the case (and I know there is a lot of assumptions in there) surely that well and truly answers the question as to whether he should stay?

I said a few weeks ago Noble must go but if this turnaround is his work and the team keep improving under him then I am happy to be proved wrong. However, I still beleive we would be better off with a new top class coach.

Actually we have.


Have you looked at the playoff format this year?

I presume you haven't or else you would point to 5th-8th not 6,7 or 8.
If I understand this correctly (which I believe I do):


Point 1: It makes very little difference where you come in the top 4.

Point 2: It makes very little difference where you come 5th-8th

A team finishing 5th-8th and making it to the Grand Final will play ONE more game than a team out of the top 4 doing so.


Right so that's ONE more game. 80 mins if you like.



That's why it's so important to finish on form. As long as we make the 8, then all form up to then is irrelevant. (or certainly much much less relevant than it has ever been)


In summary, if you "can" make the top 4 at a canter then do so, but do NOT break your backs trying to achieve it.

In either case save yourself for the playoffs, and ensure that you are hitting your peak then.


That's why I do not buy this "we need to win x% of our games" at this early stage. I suspect so does Noble.

I think there are more than an awful lot of assumptions in there.

To suggest that, because we've beaten Saints, it must be because Shaun Wane has got involved is really like saying I heard a noise one night and that proves the existance of ghosts.

Granted it could mean that, but it could also mean hundreds of other far more likely scenarios.

Noble has proved himself more than capable of rousing this team to good performances. Lack of consistancy has been his downfall. I can only tell you that I'm assured this whole business about Shaun Wane waiting in the wings to take over is complete fantasy. Almost as much as these stories about Noble having lost the dressing room and getting his pink slip.

Many of these stories come from the other website, which I'm sure runs 75% of the time on hot air and hope. They used to run regular assassination jobs on IL too, but as he's now assembled something like a decent squad, and has laid yet another myth - namely that he WILL spend money when the right player comes along - they're finding it a little harder to keep criticising him.

My point was people are suddenly heralding noble as the next messiah after some decent performances that came after he allegedly told the players he was leaving. I am merely trying to be open minded on the subject.

However , if by the "other site" (you make them sound like the enemy!!) you mean "WiganWarriorsFans" then I think you are being unfair as I do use that site and have found it to be fine.

A great theory, unfortunately the NRL use a similar top 8 system and four of the last six Grand Finals have been 1st v 2nd. One of the other two was 1st v 3rd and the only time the team that finished first after the regular rounds didn't make the GF was when the perennial chokers the Eels came top.

So based on what evidence there is out there suggests finishing positions are just as important in a top 8 system as a top 5/6.

It's not a theory. It's fact.

Your last sentance is laughable.

I have demonstrated the facts. You have chosen to ignore them (or more likely are unable to specificlaly tell me why I am wrong)

Instead you waffle on about the historical results in another country.

It's a bit like comparing the Premier League with La Liga.

Fortunately you are not the coach of Wigan RL, and if Nobby has done his homework, (which I am sure he has) then I expect a push come the playoff.

Basically because you would think that home advantage in the big games would be crucial, I'm not sure whether the stats back that up however.

People talk about how its now important to finish top 4 as it was top 2 last year but I certainly wouldn't fancy going away to Headingly or Knowsley Road in a playoff game. It seems unavoidable in this current season for Wigan if they're going to get to the GF.

We are 9th and the League Table doesn't lie!
Our start to the season was awful.
However change has occurred and with it improvement.
The signing of Martin Gleeson is a great boost for the squad being the quality player he is. We now have Tim Smith playing very well.
These changes together with Noble settling on Phelps at FB, stable 3/4 and halves that have TL starting 7 then to 9 are producing results, literally.
We look a far better team and a more balanced one too.
A far better attacking force with scoring an average of over 40 in the last three games.
The whole squad looks confident and that in itself can mean points on the board compared to a team lacking belief in themselves.
Noble and IL have turned it around with the signing of Gleeson and Smith's inclusion having been dropped has proved very successful.
If both BN and IL can sort out the pack then we can have a team competing for trophies.
We are not far off and if Ian Lenagan and Brian Noble can stay together then we may well be nearer the success we all want than we think.
The last thing we need is a change of coach and the disruption that will bring, it could set us back another 2-3 years.

You really do take yourself seriously don't you?

The only facts are those I posted - i.e. what has actually happened.

People basically have two options to base their position on:

1. What has happened in a comparable system used over a number of years.

2. A theory based on no evidence whatsoever, apart from the usual head in the sand rantings.

But it's not a theory.

I am stating how the playoff season works. It is up to the reader to make their own mind up.

Btw the Australian system is NOT the same as that in SL. HTH.

"Point 1: It makes very little difference where you come in the top 4. "

Is the first thing you said, which is a theory. I've shown what has happened in a comparable system which shows the higher up you finish has a relationship on whether you make the Grand Final.




I'm aware of that which is why I said it was "similar", not the "same". The principles are close in terms of the advantage it gives to higher placed teams.

If you need any help in the definition of certain words I'll gladly point you in the right direction.

HTH.

What a load of balls.

Why can the PL not be compared to La Liga?

The indisputable facts are that a team finishes as high up in the league as they do because they are consistently better than other teams. To win the grand final requires a team to be 'consistently' excellent for three games, something that a team finishing 5-14th is unlikely to do.

This mythical peaking at the right time has been harped on about for the last three years but our lack of consistency in the regular season has meant we aren't used to peaking for three games in a row. Noble apparantly always got the Bulls to 'peak at the right time' - but this was only ever from third or above.

It's not a theory, it's a fact.

Forget Austrailia. We are in the UK. Our teams are different, the level of competition is different.


There is a slight advantage to home vs away but in reality that's all it is. As slight advantage.


Much more important is the form a team carries into the playoffs.

Actually a more accurate description would be "they have over the course of a season performed better than the teams below them".

Consistency is a seperate issue.

Both the above are not as important as peaking at the right time.