must be true then

And you sound like a young ignorant yob. Now what's your point?

Okay, there's a lot of focus on negatives here. So, let's just take a step back here and look at things...

The negative here is that someone has taken it upon themselves to spray-paint the stadium "in the name of The Brigantes". The positive is that the Brigantes (who's brand was used) have addressed the issue, and have taken professional steps to deal with the situation approriately.

The negative is that some folk believe the Ultras term is typical of hooligans and violence. The positive is that the Brigantes (who brand themselves as having an "ultra's scene"icon_wink.gif, have acknowledged that they are aware of the pre-conception of the term Ultras and are taking steps to change that pre-conception.

The negative is that some folk disagree with what the Brigantes are trying to achieve. But the positive there has been a definate increase in noise levels within both home and away stadia during the 2011 season.

The positives are that, at away games, it is a majority who are involved with the singing and joining in. It is accepted by the Brigantes that it is more difficult to replicate the same at home games. It's difficult to replicate because there aren't 2000 fans at home games, there's 18'000, so that's 11'000 people who do, or dont, want to get involved. By the very nature of it, it's a lot more difficult to get 11'000 people on side than it is 2000. I think it's very important to identify that the Brigantes are managing just that, the numbers are on the up.

Think about the views of other teams on Wigan as a whole... The Wigan Walk, they never sing, they only sing when they're winning. Now look at the views of other teams on the Brigantes, Loud support, Vocal support, colourful displays, stay behind after games, sing for 80 minutes.

In everything in life there are negatives to the positives, you can't make an omlette without breaking a few eggs. What the Brigantes are focusing on is pushing the positives to the wider population, and addressing the negatives in house.

Nobody can force anyone else to get behind the Brigantes, all that can be done is to show that through the dedication to the team, the group is accessible and inviting.

Both noise pollution!

Do you think it is acceptable to break someone elses possesion? I hope not. You are worse than the people you have been attempting to describe if that is the case.

You will try to find a fault in anything fella. Why do you waste your time on an internet forum just to be picky about stuff?

One idiot has spoiled a group was has so far done everything they can to improve the atmosphere, it is as simple as that. We certainly havn't done anything as bad as breaking something which is not ours (something you clearly stated you would be willing to do). Your judgement has been shocking.

Come back with whatever clever answer you can find, maybe sit there for a while and come up with something really juicey to try and get under my skin, whatever you like.

=#FF0000At the end of the day I know a really sound bunch of lads, infact, no, mates.... I go to the games with them, we are friends outside of the rugby, we get on really well. We have done our best to improve the atmosphere at games without 'trying' to be some clique. We have done our best to try and police it, it is a shame one latics fan has ruined it for us. This 'we' I talk of, I'm talking about the 'Brigantes'. Mates, friends, rugby, atmosphere. That is where it ends.

how do I, have I implied I am young, or a yob?

If you think there is no difference between shouting for your team and banging a drum then there really is no point continuing this

Your posts suggest that you are. Or maybe you just have a "young age"?

Another peice of behavious which has no place in RL. Thats two.

You are doing better than the Brigantes in terms of bad behviour lad.

oh dear

Jesus, this brigantes lot are a sensitive bunch.

The fact you brand yourselves as 'Ultras' is going to cop some flack - whether you like it or not. Due to the association with the word [in sport to violence. Now I know you're not a violent bunch, or even a troublemaking bunch, but to use that term, when associating with a group of fans is surely going to draw comparisons of other sports versions of 'Ultras' this giving you a bad name - undersvedley.

Now in regards to last night - we all get it wasn't one of the Brigantes, but they were associating themselves with you, which again, being labelled as 'Ultras' you must surely expect, and again, must expect to be criticised for. If you can't take the criticism, then please don't come onto a public forum, as people have different views and some will likely have a negative opinion about your group.

I don't care about the atmosphere, I like to go to the game, enjoy myself, and go home. I will cheer and shout and even sing sometimes if I like, others will agree. I wouldn't like a drum banging in my ear all game, so I sit nowhere near the drum guy, if he sat near me, he'd be told to move, or have his sticks inserted into his rectum. Same with those bloody horn things.

In closing, well done for getting an organised group of supporters together, I applaud you for that, but some of this criticism you need to take on the chin.

Brett, I understand completely, the sound of the drum annoys you. Perhaps you jump and spill your coffee at that first thump, I really dont know what your reasoning is, or see a requirement to know.

What I will say is that if you listen to any peice of music you will hear a beat behind it. Okay, so sometimes this isn't obvious, but I promise you, it's always there.

Now if you take a metronome to a stadium with 25'000 people stood in it, and use it to try to obtain rythmn, you're going to end up with the ripple effect. I sing one line at the back of the south stand, and 30/60 seconds later, steve up the top end of the east stand starts singing the same line, and you end up with an inaudiable ripple. Uncoordinated noise.

If you listen to the drum, and the sound created by the Brigantes, and the rest of the Wigan fans (as has been the case with Cherry And White), the drum coordinates the sound, so in one enormous pulse you hear CHERRY AND WHITE, and not ch-ch-ch-eh-eh-eh-rr-rr-rr-rr-ee-ee-ee aa-aa-aa-nn-nn-nn-dd-dd-dd wh-wh-wh-ii-ii-ii-tt-tt-tt....

So is a drum neccessary? If you can find a more effective way of controlling the beat and tempo of a song, please suggest it. I'm sure the music industry as a whole would be interested to read of your findings.

They were also associating themselves with Wigan Rugby Fans, for being there in the first place. So should the ENTIRE Wigan Rugby Fan base take the same critisism?

For that matter, they may also call themselves Christian, Jewish, A member of the Wigan Motorcycle Club, does that mean that those groups should take the critisism?

No?

Thought not.

Good post, that. I posted some months ago that calling yourselves Ultras or Brigantes would cause problems and attract problem people. Most of you laughed at me. Now it seems that some Wigan fans are starting to question things themselves. The 'Ultra' thing is bad news. People associate Ultras in sport with extreme violence. Google the word and see what comes up. This daft sticker thing will also irritate people and it's not as if it hasn't been done before. By all means support your team, but try to use some common sense as you do it.

Seriously....

This thread has become a "my interpretation is better than yours" thread.

that Torres fella got an 8 match ban for calling someone a Negrito, or Black Man (translated), the man was Black! Just because the FA has been pre-conditioned to understand Negro as a racist term, by using his own language he's been punished.

Once upon a time, if you were to look at someone with Cerebal Palsey and call them a Spastic, you'd be right. Not now though, it's a derogatory term.

People look at people from Wigan and say they all eat pies, when in truth, the term Pie Eater has nothing to do with eating Pies.

So, the term Ultras is just a word, and I have no doubt that when the Ultras tag was adopted in Europe it was a term used to describe someone who is devout about their support, but through the stupidity of European Football fans, the term is pre-conceived as a description of hooligan groups.

Now when you go on holiday to spain and ask for Te-de-negro (Black Tea), do you feel guilty? Do you feel like you've just insulted the guy who's asked you what he can get for you? Strongly doubt it. But if you said to a Black guy in the UK "You're a Negro" he'd probably smack you in the mouth.

So, let's scrap these stereotypes and pre-conceptions of what a word means. The Brigantes (Wigan Rugby Ultras) support their club as fanatically as they can, they're not violent, they're not hooligans. If you want to judge them as such, then so be it, but don't be suprised when the people you tarnish get slightly annoyed at it.

The brigantes group or whatever they are is not my cup of tea but if it makes people happy and they do no harm i aint got a problem with it

We all know it wasn't the main group who post on here cause they seem like a good bunch but if little **** trying dragging them down doing this sort of thing they dont just need banning they need a good slap or chucked in canal

I am going to be bringing my niece to some games this year who is 2 i dont want her to see this **** going on WE ARE NOT FOOTBALL

And what if I perceive the rythmic beating of a drum to detract from my enjoyment of a sporting event. Am I not allowed that view?

What next? Rock music at a snooker venue?

Nothing to do with you lot.

BUT

You're going to police it?

He will be severely dealt with

I've also picked up on this police comment by Odem,used it at least three times sounds to me that it's some sort of mafia or military group

Perhaps Odem is the godfather. Nothing been heard from jimmy birts lately has he been overthrown( or just changed his name on here)?

Constructive criticism from me:

Personally, I just want to be amongst noise and atmosphere on away day and some of the elder Brigantes should be congratulated on the efforts and ideas which have improved away day atmosphere's over the last two years.

Unfortunately they seem to have developed an increasing number young followers with a minority who think it's part of the Ultras/Brigantes mindset to spray ''S2'' on walls and to pepper Craven Park with Brigantes stickers. People can defend this all they want but face it, this will only create segregation and animosity between the Brigantes and your general fan.

In my opinion, the concept is a great idea but will only succeed at Wigan at a certain level. The songs and flags have brought the Brigantes great publicity but using flares and stickers will only leave the group open to negative attention and the general Wigan supporter over the age of 16 doesn't want to be associated with that.

Nothing wrong with noise and atmosphere ABP, that's a natural part of a spectator sport.

But drums? The constant pounding of the one (or few at a stretch) that offends the many?

This is not part of RL. This is not part of Wigan RL. It's as alien as flares are to the game.

Do we really want this in our sport?

well said love



For its worth I'm going to add a few of my opinions/rants as some of what I've read on these 15 pages is a bit trivial to say the least;

Surely people can see that the idea or building colour, noise and atmosphere at our games has been greatly improved by the flags etc and to mock each other seems silly.

That success will inivitably bring the bad along with the good and having first hand experience of both I can assure anyone who isn't directly involved that those who put their hard earned time, effort and money into the 'Brigantes' will and do, do EVERYTHING possible to police this from inside.

The fool who did this act last night should not be seen at any of our games again and shame of his friend for not stopping him, but surely praise must be given for the fact that he has been outed and therefore steps can be put in place (ie banning order)

S2 is a great idea to allow those who want to sing to know where they will be with like minded fans in a stand that is unreserved therefore allows you to move should you not like the noise (or wish to break a drum

)

Finally, and I will say it so sorry if it offends but there is the pathetic 'jealousy' thing where I see regulary the Brigantes name banished as a joke merely by those not understanding all the work behind the scenes. Some folk need to take a long hard look at themselves before they comment or try and be little the effort of others. Be that mocking a charity event, attempting to sing over anyone with a Brigantes scarf on because its funny - both are single incidents by individuals whom I know post on here.

Short of sounding old before my time - can we all not play nicely togther

Engine Man & bowtun-warrior, I really don't know what you're looking for. Policing is a general term used for the "controlling of X, Y and, Z". If you've got an image of Odem in a police officers regalia then you're barking up the wrong tree.

I beleive in regards to "we will" that is referring to the responsible members of the group. Not a single individual, but those who have worked hard over the last couple of years to develop the group, who want to safeguard the group from this kind of moronic behaviour.

So, we've all been going for a full day on this one, the Brigantes have filled you all in on what happened, and their lack of role in what happened, and assured that it is in hand, will be dealt with, and steps will be taken to ensure that, within their power, this sort of thing will not happen again.

Brett, if you're not keen on the drums, if the loud noise offends you, you can purchase ear plugs from ASDA relatively cheaply. It could be worse, Leeds have a brass band!

As far as anyone should be concerned that is it, end of story. Going over the same ground over and over is nothing short of silly and time wasting. So, time to put the matter to bed and call it that. Let's, instead, focus on what 2012 is about. The Year Of The Wolf.

Point is, why should I be forced to?