People rate Sam Tomkins above his current play. Exciting prospect yes, no more at this stage, not even played a handful of games.

Lockers is a better second row than 13. Can tackle up as well as Hansen and is far better in attack, offers more of a presence and makes more breaks.
Which leads me to think, what is Hansen's place in the team? If we have Lockers as the good strong tackler who can attack partnering the explosive Hock with Joel at loose having the size and power to tackle all day long and the skill and flair to link up with the halves why do we need Hansen?

Obviously strength in numbers, if the tackle machine (I'd have Lockers) is injured he fills in well.. but having him as the next back up is at the expense of other plays in the reserves who simply could be better. Players who can tackle up and offer more in attack.

We have Flanny, Farrell and Mossop all in the wings waiting to step up and show what they can do.

Someone mentioned the back row consists of a strong runner, a tackle machine and a ball playing forward.
The front row needs to be aggresstive, strong and bruising, difficult to put down and intimidating. Two hard props and a 9 with good go forward linking with the halves and dictating the play around the park.

See:

2 hard running solid hitting props.
No.9 linking with the backs and ball playing 13 (remember the 'golden triangle'?)
6,7 to create overlaps/running plays using both 11,12 to link outwide with the centres 3,4 then onto the wingers 2,5
FB can be used many ways in attack, as a second centre to team up down one side of the field, as a 'deep' second 1st receiver standing deeper behind the 1st receiver (re:Oz used Billy Slater in this way in the WC)

Props can be worked any which way as long as they drive the line, overloads, making the hard yards intimidating the defense.
More support, 6/7 or 1 to run with the props for support for offloads, sick of seeing props looking for an offload when no ones in support.
Hock as a strong 'prop like runner' to help out the props with the drives.
Balance of speed on one wing and a 'quick step on the other, there is nothing wrong with Roberts dropping to FB as Pat moves over to the wing during the game to run a set cross field kick play.

Team for this..

Richards
Roberts/Pryce Bailey Caromont Ainscough (New centre perhaps for next season)
Tomkins Tommy
Fielden Riddell O Carroll (Like to see Fielden out 2 'nasty' enforcer props in)
Hock Lockers
Tomkins
-------------
Feka, Prescott, McClorum, Mossop/Flanny/Farrell

You really arent listening to what other people are saying are you?

People have already stated what they think of Hansen and have backed it up with facts yet you are still saying he is clueless in attack



As for Tomkins no one has called him a world beater, but can you blame us fans that we have a great prospect playing for Wigan who has the potential to be a world beater.

This thread is gettin ridiculous now, going round in circles.

And despite my comments you miss the one stat which is most important, the win to loss.

Take a look at it, we're 2 from 6. Consider this, let it help you identify there is a problem, then address it, just as I have.

Come on, surely you can see the problems with the lack of attracting impact certain players have.

World beater isn't a direct quote before you become pedantic. Just take a look at the Sam Tomkind thread.

I haven't looked at what people are 'telling me' on this thread? read the feedback, most agree.

Don't bother watching the game in future, obviously you take more notice of your little stats sheet the RL website.

P.S Do consider we've played more games than any of team before once again 'statting' up.

Exactly we have only played 6 games so far this season and these negative threads, slating every player only 6 games in arent going to make it any better are they.

Fair enough we maybe should of beat Wakey and Cas at home but Wakey are on good form so far this season and I also wasn't expecting us to beat Leeds or Hull away which we didnt. Going down to Harlequins and picking up 2 points is a good achievement considering we didnt play that well and they have just put 60 past Warrington.

The only reason stats have to be used, is because you are saying Hansen is cluless in attack, where stats otherwise show this is wrong.

I dont get where all this negativity has come from recently, even when we were down the bottom in 2006, there wasn't this much negativity and slating players at every opportunity.

Aslong as we make the playoffs at the end of the season, with our youngsters such as Tomkins, Ainscough, O'Carroll all playing regularly then I'll be happy.

Agreed

Can't believe people are doubting our back row. It is our strongest position and I feel we have good balance there and with Mossop and Farrell coming through it is only going to get stronger

Prop is an issue for us. I can't see Fielden going until the end of his contract although unless he regains some form I think he sould go along with Coley and we should look to bring 2 of Luke Bailey, LMS, Kylie Leuluai and Andy Lynch in but this isn't going to happen

Half back is yet to be resolved and I also think we need another centre to partner Roberts. If we get a decent one we will have a cracking backline with very exciting wingers

It's no negativity it's realism.

I'll all for Wigan (obviously and there progression) I can just see players for what they are and how we've performed this season.

It's not just to do with results but how we are playing which one game apart is poorly.



So you would be happy to make the playoff? What does that mean? In 8th place or 1st place? I expect no one thinks we have a remote chance of 1st or 2nd but if we finish lower in the league than we did last season we will have gone backwards for the third year running and that possibility is at the back of many people minds I think.

Dave

Sorry but you can see players for what you think are. At the end of the day it's all opinions and no ones matter more than any others on here.

There are many, many factors contributing to bad performances from the players to the coaches to even the fans. It would be foolish to try and blame one area as fully to blame.

As you originally noticed I commented on several players being overrated.

I guess its the way you take it then. One player playing badly is never good but several (in your opinion) playing badly then maybe you have to start looking the coaching staff and asking why so many are turning in bad performances?

Why is it so called lesser players at Wakey and Cas are performing above their standings?

Like I said one player not doing it is bad but several then it’s to much of a coincidence?

Like I said this thread was about players being overrated.
Fans believe hype then getting upset when the team doesn't perform.

I simply said Hansen IMO is overrated, I have stated why. I also listed several others.

You're banging your head against a brick wall on here, mate.

There are those on here who think "over-rated" means "e". There are players who (as far as the majority on here seem to think) walk on water despite obvious failings, while there are others who if they actually did walk on water people on here would question the quality of the water.

There are players in teams both past and present who have been lauded on this message board and yet this is the only place I heard anything positive about them, similarly some players have been ritually slaughtered on here despite elsewhere being relatively well thought of.

I'm not going to get into the who I rate, don't rate debate, because it's pointless, if you fly in the face of the majority you're castigated as a know nowt. For what it worth I think a lot of posters should re-read the original post and take time to understand its meaning and not assume its an out and out assassination of the current squad.

If that sounds patronising, I apologise, I just think the point has largely been missed.

Didn't know Hansen was rated at all. I thought he just got on with the job and everyone just accepted it.

It doesn't sound patronising at all. Great post!!!

Please tell me you're joking? I refuse to believe this isn't a wind-up?

mate the only wind up must be the way some people go on about Hock...how can a player with SO many failings posibly be world class or anywhere near as some would have you believe!!!

Spot on, if anything he is underrated.

Very rarely does he get applauded for having a good game and most of the time his work goes unnoticed, which is why some people maybe believe he is clueless in attack.

Ideally I would only be happy if we finished in the top 4 and maybe made it to the CC final and winning it.

However judging on our opening few games, I feel 4th to 8th is more realistic. If it means finishing in this position but having Tomkins and Ainscough being played regularly then I'll be content, as we will be building for the future whilst still finishing in a respectable position.

With the youngsters we have, I'm willing to be patient if it means we will be back at the top winning things in 3 to 5 years, but some fans want instant success and that wont be happening overnight.

Can't argue with that, If I was going to write a thread complaining about any of our players, Hansen would be somewhere near the bottom of my list... totally under-rated solid player.

Hansen is an average SL player. By rating him anything more is overrating him.

Yes he's a great tackler, so are many of the forwards in SL. Think of it from this angle, having Hansen in the 17 results in another player missing out in the 17, namely one of the other young backrowers- Flanny Mossop or Farrell for example.

If one of these 3 could tackle up and offer some ideas in attack, surely we'd sooner see them in the 17? Basically if they're a better player they should be in.

Team I posted

-----------------Richards-------------------
---Roberts Bailey Carmont Ainscough---
-----------Tomkins Tommy---------------
-------Fielden Riddell O Carroll-----------
--------------Hock Lockers----------------
----------------Tomkins--------------------
Feka McClorum Prescott (Mossop/Farrell/Flanny)

If they are better than Hansen, they should play.

I'm sorry but again you’re posting your opinions as FACTS. They are not facts they are your opinions.

You think Hansen is average and overrated i think he's underrated. You think he's clueless in attack i think he runs the best lines at the club, makes modest yards and never gets dominated in the tackle.

Hansen would get in the starting 17 of every SL squad and would be my first 2nd rower down to start every week.

Agreed. It is opinion.

Like 98% of comments posted on a message board.

Now that's a FACT!

If ifs and ands.....

Hansen has a consistently high work rate, doesn't make unforced errors, doesn't give away penalties and as has been stated runs some great lines.

He improved in the majority of areas between 2007 and 2008 which can't be said for most of our players. Last season he was top in tackles with 825 with Sinfield second with 777. He was also top on marker tackles with 106, 16 more than Simon Finnegan at number 2.

You are entitled to your opinion but at least back it up with some evidence.

Errors, penalties, attitude and inconsistency cost us dearly last season so I just don't understand why anyone would highlight a player who has no apparent problems in any of those areas.