They are backs though and the problem is the pack. Field looked very exciting before the injury (well for the minutes he was in the pitch) but why did we recruit him? French was also relatively unknown but despite his obvious talent Lam doesn’t seem to know how to get him into the team when fit along with Hardaker.

We lost Burgess, Flower and our biggest back row in Greenwood and signed another back. We are now linked with Thornley and even Gelling. It all seems a bit haphazard to me.

He didn't. He just didn't mention them because it didn't suit his juvenile agenda.

But I'm not going to pretend that all is well. It isn't. We aren't good enough man for man, and the coach is unable to get us up for any games that involve more than average effort.

Sorry to say this, but I hope we are now looking for someone else.

In the Radlinski interview he mentioned that June is usually a tough month for him. That's because June is when decisions around contract extensions are made.

Who to extend (and for how long/how much).
Who to let go.
Who to recruit to replace those let go.

I'm sure I heard that something like 9 players are out of contract this season (may be 8 now Gildart has been made official). If someone could add a link, or list the players below that would be appreciated.

In addition IL's one year rolling contract is also up for renewal. So plenty to get through over the next four weeks.

Makes shocking reading this: https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... ssion=true Quote We haven't been great admittedly over the recent weeks. To some degree, a loss was coming but to that extent, I just don't understand how we've got to that point '" Quote Whether that's an attitude or we just weren't quite there in the sense of how tough it was, but the preparation in the week was focused, we trained OK, but it's the penalties and errors that have hurt us the past three weeks. A loss was coming but to that extent, I did not see that coming'" If your coach's attitude is simply 'a loss was coming' then no wonder the effort today was zero (much like the scoreline). Out of his depth.

Makes shocking reading this: https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... ssion=true Quote We haven't been great admittedly over the recent weeks. To some degree, a loss was coming but to that extent, I just don't understand how we've got to that point '" Quote Whether that's an attitude or we just weren't quite there in the sense of how tough it was, but the preparation in the week was focused, we trained OK, but it's the penalties and errors that have hurt us the past three weeks. A loss was coming but to that extent, I did not see that coming'" If your coach's attitude is simply 'a loss was coming' then no wonder the effort today was zero (much like the scoreline). Out of his depth.

If Maurice Lyndsey was still here he Lam would have been sacked after the game today with the Hull defeat and now this miserable show ML would have sacked Lam.

Quote ="MattyB"Makes shocking reading this: https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... ssion=true If your coach's attitude is simply 'a loss was coming' then no wonder the effort today was zero (much like the scoreline). Out of his depth.'" THEN DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!! He frustrates the life out of me. If this doesn’t scream “I’m out of my depth” I don’t know what does. I can’t honestly believe there’s still Adrian Lam happy clappers. IL needs to be ruthless. Get rid, and do it now.

Quote ="MattyB"Makes shocking reading this: https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... ssion=true If your coach's attitude is simply 'a loss was coming' then no wonder the effort today was zero (much like the scoreline). Out of his depth.'" THEN DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!! He frustrates the life out of me. If this doesn’t scream “I’m out of my depth” I don’t know what does. I can’t honestly believe there’s still Adrian Lam happy clappers. IL needs to be ruthless. Get rid, and do it now.

oh,dear,how sad,never mind.

Its time that some stopped blaming the Coach and faced up to the fact that under Lenagan and Radlinski, the club is now in a mess from top to bottom and a lot of it has to do with a lack of finance.

You only have to look at the club website to see how everything is a shambles. No reports of Academy or Schlorship games, no proper player profiles and players listed as being at the club, but actually playing elsewhere and hardly a day goes by without the club announching a new sponser to boost in order to boost finances.

And supporters should be asking themselves the following questions:-

Why did Sean Edwards give back word on becoming Head Coach?

Why did Sam Tomkins suddenly decide after returning from down under, again for a second time, want out of the club?

Why was Mcllorum who was still the club's best hooker allow to leave in order to fit Powell into the position.

Why did Sean Wane who is 100% Wigan Rugby League Club throw in the towel of being Head Coach?

The answer is Lengan and Radlinski who have taken the club back to the level it was under the ownership of Dave Whelan with a average squad and poor signings.

No matter who is the Coach, he will have the same problems of a first team squad which outside a half dozen or so good class players is mostly made up of average, small and young players and has not the right blend of experience, size and quality players.

Perhaps, the time has come for the club to come under a more dynamic ownership like what happened in the late seventies when the club at the time was also was facing financial problems.

Quote ="Ruddy Duck"Its time that some stopped blaming the Coach and faced up to the fact that under Lenagan and Radlinski, the club is now in a mess from top to bottom and a lot of it has to do with a lack of finance. You only have to look at the club website to see how everything is a shambles. No reports of Academy or Schlorship games, no proper player profiles and players listed as being at the club, but actually playing elsewhere and hardly a day goes by without the club announching a new sponser to boost in order to boost finances. '" There are literally player profiles on the website. Academy match reports too. We even brought in a billionaire as a large shareholder... Quote And supporters should be asking themselves the following questions:- Why did Sean Edwards give back word on becoming Head Coach? '" Can’t argue with that. It was handled poorly and on a handshake. Quote Why did Sam Tomkins suddenly decide after returning from down under, again for a second time, want out of the club? '" Why did he go to the NRL? To challenge himself, better lifestyle. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.wiga ... 5185%3famp All the answers you want. Quote Why was Mcllorum who was still the club's best hooker allow to leave in order to fit Powell into the position.'" The head coach at the time was Shaun Wane. He made the decisions on who he kept and signed, ergo he made the decision to release Micky. A decision I didn’t agree with at the time and still don’t now. Quote Why did Sean Wane who is 100% Wigan Rugby League Club throw in the towel of being Head Coach?'" Just because someone is ‘100% Wigan Rugby League’ doesn’t mean that person should stay tied to the club for life. He’s achieved everything he wanted with Wigan and made no secret of his desire to coach England and in the NRL. He’s said repeatedly he left because he wanted a new challenge and to concentrate on other ventures. Quote The answer is Lengan and Radlinski who have taken the club back to the level it was under the ownership of Dave Whelan with a average squad and poor signings. No matter who is the Coach, he will have the same problems of a first team squad which outside a half dozen or so good class players is mostly made up of average, small and young players and has not the right blend of experience, size and quality players. Perhaps, the time has come for the club to come under a more dynamic ownership like what happened in the late seventies when the club at the time was also was facing financial problems.'" Whilst I don’t agree with every decision KR/IL make, you’re being ridiculous. Look at where we’ve come from since IL came in to where we are. Multiple titles and challenge cups with a club World Cup to boot. Heavy investment in the playing staff but also the facilities at Robin Park. We’ve made huge strides to ensuring success rolls on for years to come. You trying to change blame from Lam to IL/KR is laughable. Actually no, it’s embarrassing.

Quote ="Ruddy Duck"Its time that some stopped blaming the Coach and faced up to the fact that under Lenagan and Radlinski, the club is now in a mess from top to bottom and a lot of it has to do with a lack of finance. You only have to look at the club website to see how everything is a shambles. No reports of Academy or Schlorship games, no proper player profiles and players listed as being at the club, but actually playing elsewhere and hardly a day goes by without the club announching a new sponser to boost in order to boost finances. '" There are literally player profiles on the website. Academy match reports too. We even brought in a billionaire as a large shareholder... Quote And supporters should be asking themselves the following questions:- Why did Sean Edwards give back word on becoming Head Coach? '" Can’t argue with that. It was handled poorly and on a handshake. Quote Why did Sam Tomkins suddenly decide after returning from down under, again for a second time, want out of the club? '" Why did he go to the NRL? To challenge himself, better lifestyle. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.wiga ... 5185%3famp All the answers you want. Quote Why was Mcllorum who was still the club's best hooker allow to leave in order to fit Powell into the position.'" The head coach at the time was Shaun Wane. He made the decisions on who he kept and signed, ergo he made the decision to release Micky. A decision I didn’t agree with at the time and still don’t now. Quote Why did Sean Wane who is 100% Wigan Rugby League Club throw in the towel of being Head Coach?'" Just because someone is ‘100% Wigan Rugby League’ doesn’t mean that person should stay tied to the club for life. He’s achieved everything he wanted with Wigan and made no secret of his desire to coach England and in the NRL. He’s said repeatedly he left because he wanted a new challenge and to concentrate on other ventures. Quote The answer is Lengan and Radlinski who have taken the club back to the level it was under the ownership of Dave Whelan with a average squad and poor signings. No matter who is the Coach, he will have the same problems of a first team squad which outside a half dozen or so good class players is mostly made up of average, small and young players and has not the right blend of experience, size and quality players. Perhaps, the time has come for the club to come under a more dynamic ownership like what happened in the late seventies when the club at the time was also was facing financial problems.'" Whilst I don’t agree with every decision KR/IL make, you’re being ridiculous. Look at where we’ve come from since IL came in to where we are. Multiple titles and challenge cups with a club World Cup to boot. Heavy investment in the playing staff but also the facilities at Robin Park. We’ve made huge strides to ensuring success rolls on for years to come. You trying to change blame from Lam to IL/KR is laughable. Actually no, it’s embarrassing.

And if William the Conqueror was still king, Prince Harry wouldn't be embarrassing the nation nightly for the entertainment of his new American friends, as someone would have been sent to kill him.

But he isn't. And neither is Maurice, and even if he was, he's now 80 years old.

Revising history serves no purpose here.

Maurice was great in a non-salary cap era. But he was hopeless during his second stint. Even with Whelan in charge, a guy who could have run the club with his small change, they managed to comprehensively botch it.

You’ve missed the point.

He’s not wishing for Mo to be back. He’s saying IL should have some backbone like Mo and pull the trigger like Mo would have done.

Weird isn't it how some conveniently miss this little nugget out. Not only did they botch it (and nearly killed our club in the process) they had also blatantly overspent on the cap by fiddling the books. They both then compounded this by overspending even more to avoid relegation before chucking their cards in the year after.

Edit - That doesn't mean I don't agree with showing some ML ruthlessness for a change.

Rightly, or wrongly IL doesn't sack coaches mid season. He certainly doesn't sack coaches who've won 7/8 games.

I'm not a Lam fan and I want him out, but that's at the end of the year. Sacking a coach is a gut reaction and thankfully IL isn't that stupid. The next coach appointment is hugely important, not only from a recruitment POV but also making sure we have the right guy to look after a talented group of youngsters.

It needs to be done from a position of strength and after a hell of a lot of due diligence.

My personal view is that Lam has had his chance. Despite the games we've won, I don't know any honest fan who feels we've been playing well.

I know he's had challenges to deal with, not least Covid, and a lot of untimely and serious injuries to key personnel, but that could happen to any team and frequently does.

However, I totally agree with you that replacing a coach cannot be done in anger. All that would happen if IL sacked Lam today is that we'd end up with a very inexperienced assistant coach running a team that has been decimated by injury. That would be a recipe for total disaster. Some might argue that he should try to do what Maurice did with Noble, but which coach in SL at present is even close to enjoying the rep that Brian Noble did?

For me, IL needs to do another 'Michael Maguire', i.e take his time to source an exceptional talent in the NRL and persuade him to come over here ... and that's going to take a while.

Perhaps in the meantime, he can look to make some astute signings. I'm not saying stars, as that would cost us a lot and probably couldn't happen until the end of the year anyway. But it must be clear to both him and KR that the current team is nowhere near good enough man-for-man. The injuries to key men has made it look worse than it is, but there are big gaps in that line-up, and they need filling quickly.

Is anybody going to give Catalan any credit for how they played? Yes Wigan were poor, error strewn and undisciplined but they were bloody good.

Careful for what you wish for. Ian Lenagan has always come across, to me, as a forward thinking chairman and owner with the club’s best interests at heart. There have been a few bad decisions over the years, namely the Millwall and Australia episodes of taking ‘home’ fixtures elsewhere but, on the whole, he is a person you would wish to have in charge, rather than not. This is backed up quite clearly by the number of trophies brought to the club during his tenure.

Yesterday was e with a capital s and yes, recent performances have papered over the cracks to what, on paper, was a decent enough start to the season, Challenge Cup aside. But, to give a bit of balance, the general opinion on here only a few weeks ago was that, if we have a Walmsley at prop, we win the GF rather than finish as runners up.

For me, we have two main problems. Firstly, a manager/head coach who has probably taken us as far as he can and, secondly, a weak and inexperienced pack that needs beefing up considerably. After coming so close last year, it’s hard to take. We’ll have to write this year off, that’s now a given but it’s not the end of the world. The club is still in good shape.

As always there is no simple remedy to our problems, at least not this season. We are a completely unbalanced side partly because of poor decision making and partly bad luck.
We do not seem to have a working recruitment structure. Too often our top dollar signings have not worked. We took a risk on Burgess and we are still paying for it. We have papered over the cracks, in the past, by bringing young talent through, unfortunately we are now losing players just as they start to mature.
We have been unlucky at times. We ended up with Hardaker, Field and French, all on good money I assume, when most of us thought that French would have been gone by now. That left us short in the centres.
Now we look like a team of utility players. Any team would be happy to have Smithies, Shorrocks, Partington and Isa, just not all on the pitch at the same time. We are now so one dimensional that young players cannot get a run out in their best position and if they did they could not shine within our structure.
It is clear that little can be done this season give the cap but by the end of the season we will be in a position have shed five props, possibly two centres, one halfback, one hooker, a second row and possibly a couple of others. The test will be of how well we handle that. My worry is that Tony Clubb might get another contract simply because the others look worse.

Undoubtedly. They ran red hot and we hit a real low.

Sadly (& this isn't a dig at IL), a lot of the Wigan Catalan contingent should arguably still be here.

I do think that, as a club, we're too obsessed or focused on the "next big thing" and certainly, from a prop POV, we're too quick to cut players that still have a use.

As a side note, I've seen posters calling for Byrne to be dropped or let go. I really hope that we don't do that. He's going to be a very good player, but needs time to develop into the player he's going to be. Our loss will be another's sides gain in a few years.

Fully agree. The young lads in the pack have played superbly this season, more so in defence than attack, but have finally run out of steam. They should have been rested now and again and helped along by our more experienced lads but that has not been possible. Clark may as well not be here, Bullock has not progressed from last season (in fact he’s gone backwards) and Singleton is a shadow of the player we saw last year.

In the 2nd half Catalans were great. In the 1st half they missed at least 4 scoring opportunities. Should have been 60+ at least.

Catalans were very good, as they were last week. Always difficult place to go to granted however we should be looking to at least compete with them.

This season we have been guilty of allowing inferior opposition to have far too much possession and scores. First game of the season we allowed Leigh to get into an 18nil lead, okay we luckily won the game but Leigh shouldn't have been allowed to get into that position. We were lucky against Salford and Hull (league) and have been walking a tightrope for weeks. Even York gave us a game for a good hour.

Our two biggest games so far this season we have failed miserably.

Not yet played Saints & Wire which is a scary thought.

On a positive note we've probably got enough points in the bag already not to have to worry about relegation

Will probably go and lock myself in the basement for those two.

Unless there are changes to personnel then a bottom 4 wouldn’t surprise me.
The Huddersfield game will I think be very telling.
No pack to speak of and no FB. Could be another real drubbing.

I don't know what qualifies Radlinski to be a Chief Executive if I'm honest - I don't think he's done a good job at all.

As for Tomkins McIllorum et al - that's down to money. It's pretty clear we're not awash with cash. To be fair with our Academy that's not a problem if you make a couple of astute veteran signings a year to help the younger players. Sadly we've consistently fluffed our lines there.