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| Quote ="Rogues Gallery"Has there ever been a semi final in recent history that has had eight players from each team aged 30 or over?
Leeds - Bailey, Burrow, JJB, McGuire, Sinfield, Peacock, Leuluai & Kirke
Wire - M Monaghan, J Monaghan, Bridge, Waterhouse, Westwood, Asotasi, Wood & Higham
A lot of rebuilding to do in the next couple of years I would think.'"
Massive job on for both of them but especially Leeds.
How do you go about replacing guys like Sinfield, Peacock and Burrow? They're the backbone if the team and Leeds through and through. Their academy teams haven't been as strong these past few seasons as they were when lads like Sinfield and Burrow came through and it's next to impossible to bring in that quality from the NRL.
We'll hopefully be in a position to take full advantage of both teams 'transitional' years that they're bound to go through.
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| Quote ="NickyKiss"Quote ="Rogues Gallery"Has there ever been a semi final in recent history that has had eight players from each team aged 30 or over?
Leeds - Bailey, Burrow, JJB, McGuire, Sinfield, Peacock, Leuluai & Kirke
Wire - M Monaghan, J Monaghan, Bridge, Waterhouse, Westwood, Asotasi, Wood & Higham
A lot of rebuilding to do in the next couple of years I would think.'"
Massive job on for both of them but especially Leeds.
How do you go about replacing guys like Sinfield, Peacock and Burrow? They're the backbone if the team and Leeds through and through. Their academy teams haven't been as strong these past few seasons as they were when lads like Sinfield and Burrow came through and it's next to impossible to bring in that quality from the NRL.
We'll hopefully be in a position to take full advantage of both teams 'transitional' years that they're bound to go through.'"
Exactly the same as what i said.
I agree about us hopefully capitalising on it as well. I think in all likely hood Saints will be our closest rivals for a few seasons.
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| I thought Tony Smith got it wrong with his team selection for Catalans. He had three men missing for that one and those who played were still getting over the trip and the game.
McDermott though rested his main players for the Bradford game, they lost and he got pilloried. Yet his team looked the fresher and 14-0 in their favour at half time meant game over.
Leeds fans won't give a thought (or anything else) about the Bradford loss if they win the C Cup after all these years.
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| Quote ="sergeant pepper"Exactly the same as what i said.
I agree about us hopefully capitalising on it as well. I think in all likely hood Saints will be our closest rivals for a few seasons.'"
We're at the total opposite end of the scale aren't we in that we can only improve 'if' we can keep a reasonably settled squad. We've got so much improvement in almost every member of the squad and we only have two players in Bowen and Lockers who may only have another season or two in them. Unlike Wire and Leeds we have decent options to replace those guys anyway both internally and externally via lads like Hampshire, Bateman and possibly a certain Sam Tomkins.
It would be a waste if we don't at least continue to compete for trophies over the next 5+ years.
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| Quote ="Father Ted"Leeds fans won't give a thought (or anything else) about the Bradford loss if they win the C Cup after all these years.'"
Well, they couldn't have been given a better chance. London next week, McDermott could rest nearly everyone and still expect a result, whereas what does Daz Powell do against Warrington? Rest a few for the CC final and sod the two points in the league, or just head down and go for both?
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| wire were anonymous, only noticed Westwood was playing in the second half!
anyone else think Halls 2nd try was forward? I notice they never showed the side on view in any of the replays after the first time.
Didnt affect the result anyhow.
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| Quote ="Moe syslak"Nobody is denying wire were awful, but what does that say about leeds? With the state of our non existent attack and the amount of ball and field position they had that game should have been over at half time. Wigan would have been 20 points up at least by half time. As soon as bridge moved to half back we created several clear cut chances which we bombed each time. We were poor, very poor, leeds got a couple of slightly dodgy calls and they won by a mighty eight points. Do not be worried by them come play off time if you are on your game.'"
Criticises margin of victory.....in a semi final.
One of the dumbest things I've read on here.
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| Some Nice sensible reasoned points. All very fair assumptions of our shortcomings on Saturday.
It was disappointing that we gave so much ball to Leeds which simply drained us. I think the stats were 80% possession for Leeds for the first 20 minutes and they were just 2 nil up.... so I'm not that worried for play offs if we face them again, I doubt they'll get that level of possession again.
But Picking up on Rogues' special rule he has about players over 30 in a team meaning it's rubbish.
we'll replace:
M Monas: with Darryl Clark (I have heard it off a current SL coach so I'm not being arrogant)
Waterhouse: with Ben Currie (19) who has been Second row on the 10 game unbeaten run while 'House was injured
Asotasi: being rubbish is fuelling rumours we may offload him, so Simms would be his replacement (29..phew!!)
Wood: is the odd one he's been poor and injured a lot but he may do one more year because Mike Cooper has one more season in the NRL with St George before he comes back to us, and he has been playing very well indeed. so that would be a twenty something warrington academy product with first grade NRL experience.... that's Rogues worst nightmare...
Higham again while no one rates him on here he's been superb for us, he'll go another year and then more than likely make way for academy product Brad Dwyer to step up to be Clarks understudy.
Bridge: no problems in good nick, great utility, player bags of experience.
Westwood clearly needs help. Along with Hill they have had to carry a young inexperienced pack(England, Evans, G Riley, Laithwaite, Curry etc etc) Wood And waterhous have not played much and Asotasi isn't ever given more than half an hours game time. Ashton Simms will help, he does work that goes noticed. (Our Waterhouse fans tell us his work goes unnoticed)
So while Rogues was clearly having a "look at Wigan full of kids (but not in the Semis btw)and dirty old Warrington full of over 30's" jibe. it wasn't a great jibe as its all largely sorted for next season, and we lost a lot of old farts at the end of last season as well, one of which has just bagged himself his fifth Wembley Final (Carvell).
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| Out of interest, is it a given that Cooper is going back to Wire when his current deal ends? No risk of him, yknow, getting another one or possibly looking at a different NRL club?
I ask because he was fairly anonymous over here, but seems to be going steady for now in the NRL, why would he come back? What for exactly?
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| Quote ="the flying biscuit"Asotasi: being rubbish is fuelling rumours we may offload him, so Simms would be his replacement (29..phew!!)'"
There's a reason why he hasn't been signed by an NRL club and Wire have signed him instead and it's not because he loves the Wolfs, it's because he's steady at best and can't get a look-in in the NRL.
Also, he'll be 30 by the time next season starts.
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| Ashton Simms isn't gifted like his brother Tariq but he more than makes up with it in his desire and effort, polar opposite to Roy Asotasi.
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| Of the four semi final teams I thought Cas were the best by some considerable distance.
Leeds must be careful or they won't get the victory most seem they are certain of.
As for Wire and Widnes, the thread title says it all about the Wolfs and Widnes looked a very poor mid table team. As has been said Wire will still have to re-build but their playmakers of Ratchford, Myler and O'Brien aren't good enough. They need to find a half back coach from within the club and promote him to first team duties, if they look deep enough I'm sure they'll find one that knows the half back trade.
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| Perhaps Briers' enforced departure finally hit them more than they would like to admit.
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| Quote ="blackpoolwigan"Out of interest, is it a given that Cooper is going back to Wire when his current deal ends? No risk of him, yknow, getting another one or possibly looking at a different NRL club?
I ask because he was fairly anonymous over here, but seems to be going steady for now in the NRL, why would he come back? What for exactly?'"
bugger I seem to have put the mockers on that move
[urlhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/28755474[/url
its just an Agreement to rejoin the Wire when he comes back but a few of us that watch the NRL were thinking he'll do a James Graham ...ring home ask his mum if he's needed back home if not he'll stay out there....
and fair play to him he was the most low profile of all the superleague players going out there and hes done a great job, and reading the Aussie Forums they are hoping he extends his stay.
He has a business here in Warrington but nothing he needs to rush back to.
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| Quote ="Suzy Banyon"There's a reason why he hasn't been signed by an NRL club and Wire have signed him instead and it's not because he loves the Wolfs, it's because he's steady at best and can't get a look-in in the NRL.
Also, he'll be 30 by the time next season starts.
'"
How do you know he couldn't get a look in at any NRL club...?
Yes if I had the pick of the cowboys forwards he wouldn't be in the first three picks. I'd pick Matt Scott over any prop forward in the NRL, then Id pick James Tamu then Tariq Simms before Ashton.
We know what we are getting, but he's what we need, great energy, great physical presence, and a great team player. But hes not coming to Wire to be our best forward either. He'll be behind Hill and Westwood. And hopefully he'll help the development of England, Evans, Laithwaite Glen Riley and Currie. I'm looking forward to him coming if you have him down as a Turkey then thats fair enough.
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| Quote ="the flying biscuit"How do you know he couldn't get a look in at any NRL club...?
Yes if I had the pick of the cowboys forwards he wouldn't be in the first three picks. I'd pick Matt Scott over any prop forward in the NRL, then Id pick James Tamu then Tariq Simms before Ashton.
We know what we are getting, but he's what we need, great energy, great physical presence, and a great team player. But hes not coming to Wire to be our best forward either. He'll be behind Hill and Westwood. And hopefully he'll help the development of England, Evans, Laithwaite Glen Riley and Currie. I'm looking forward to him coming if you have him down as a Turkey then thats fair enough.'"
I saw Simms in the Ireland v Fiji game at last year's WC and was really impressed. A hard running, hard tackling forward who never stops grafting. Think he'd do a good job at any SL club and will probably become a Wire fan favourite if he plays like that over here.
I also saw him in Tesco at Horwich the weekend after and, not only is he a big bugger, but he's a nice bloke too!
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| Quote ="ksm1701"I saw Simms in the Ireland v Fiji game at last year's WC and was really impressed. A hard running, hard tackling forward who never stops grafting. Think he'd do a good job at any SL club and will probably become a Wire fan favourite if he plays like that over here.
I also saw him in Tesco at Horwich the weekend after and, not only is he a big bugger, but he's a nice bloke too!'"
To be fair, I'd look good vs Ireland (, Wales and Scotland sadly) so it's not really a good judge of quality!
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| With his ultra aggressive approach things will go one of two ways for Simms-
1- He'll settle quickly and will dominate games due to that approach. He'll be a fans favourite but may be at the RFL disciplinary more often then not.
2- He'll become a target and other superleague props will take it as a challenge to hammer him. I still remember the bashings Mark Carroll used to take each week when at London and Josh Perry was a similar target whilst at Saints. They were both aggressive players who's approach backfired on them.
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| Quote ="Magic Superbeetle"To be fair, I'd look good vs Ireland (, Wales and Scotland sadly) so it's not really a good judge of quality!'"
Fair do's, but I should've added that's the only time I've seen him play in the flesh. Have also been impressed when watching him in the NRL too.
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| Not sure if it's already been mentioned, and it may just be a rumour, but if Clark joins Wire next year he will really improve them. I would have kept Ratchford at 1 and played O'Brien at 7 if i had been Smith, as O'Brien looks to me to be the one player who can organise a team. They could still be a threat in the play offs, but if we play as well as we can that should be good enough - a couple of years ago, that would not have been the case.
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| Don't think there is much 'if' about clark joining warrington next year.
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| its a done deal but apparently he wishes now it was not
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| Quote ="ploinerrhino"its a done deal but apparently he wishes now it was not'"
whys that?...are Weller Hauraki, Craig Huby, Jamie ellis and Marc Sneyd, also Wishing they werent leaving Cas...?
or is it just because they aren't going to Wire? A side that recently has appeared in more finals than Salford, huddersfield, and Hull put together...........?
strange one....
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| Quote ="the flying biscuit"whys that?...are Weller Hauraki, Craig Huby, Jamie ellis and Marc Sneyd, also Wishing they werent leaving Cas...?
or is it just because they aren't going to Wire? A side that recently has appeared in more finals than Salford, huddersfield, and Hull put together...........?
strange one....'"
From a playing point of view they probably are. It must have been the most enjoyable season of all their careers and they seem a really strong 'team' who are enjoying each other's success.
I wouldn't take it personally that somebody said he regrets his Wire deal. After this year he probably regrets signing any deal so early and would if it were Leeds, Wigan, Saints or any club.
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| Back to Coops, his game suits the NRL more than SL anyway.
Coops was always a tough no nonsense defender, he's a polite and articulate guy but he's alsona bit of a boxer too, not a guy I'd go toe to toe with.
Coops for me had his flaws in attack, I hated him being on the end of a crash ball or playing in the wet, iron hands.
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