That's a very laudable suggestion and I'm all for closer links with the local amateur clubs. In practice, though, first pick means nothing if a kid is offered more money to go elsewhere.

this is a very passionate argument so as a neutral observer could i throw in that the question about Kallum Watkins was mentioned last night on Radio Manchester .

Francis Cummins from Leeds said the lad is a wonderful prospect and Leeds clearly had enough confidence in him to start him last week and that by the way isnt the first time he's started- Shaun Mcrae did explain that a number of clubs wanted Kallum and it was simply down to him accepting what he thought was best for him - plain old freedom of choice

Very simple solution (?) Any player on the books of his hometown club doesn't count on the salary cap. Sorted

Something I've advocated for years.
Ant player from a towns own service area should be exempt (or have a reduction in that players cap value).

First of all the service ares would have to be sorted, but if the clubs can agree on a pick a play off team, then they should be able to agree on the service areas.

how do you define the boundaries of a service area? what would happen in Hull, for example? what about the Widnes/Warrington area? where does the Celtic area extend to? what about London? what about young Cumbrian players? do Catalan "get" the whole of France?

you have come up with a solution to a problem that doesnt really exist - and doesnt explain how it would stop some clubs and coaches [uchoosing[/u to field 9 out of 13 foreign players in their teams.

Am I missing something?
Is there a Rule that states You Can't play 9 Foreign Players ??????

How come this didn't seem to bother you when other clubs had has many if not more foreign players in their team?

Are you getting on your Moralistic High Horse as you want to see the standard of English Rugby improve? If so, thanks for that but I have another suggestion, stop picking the likes of Wilking/Gardner/Maureen etc for GB that may Help!

Please tell me how many of their own Local Backs Saints have brought through into their starting 1-7 in the last 5 years????

I'll tell you what!

Ask Wellens/Gidley/Long/Cayless/Graham Maybe Roby to sit out 1/2 or 3/4 of a season like some clubs have had to do in previous seasons ie Hull?Warrington/Ourselves etc and throw in 5/6 of tese youngsters for the next 15/20 weeks and lets see how Good they are playing with Gardner/Gilmour/Flannery/Wilkin & Hargreaves Class week in week out!

The truth is, Saints & Leeds have been able to promote some Youth into their set ups over the last couple of years because their clubs have had the stability and the success to enable them to do so.

If your concern is about bringing through players to play for GB then :-
When Wigan were making GF Appearances & CC Final Appearances regularly 88-95 - 98-2004 we brought Many,Many more through that were eligible for GB & England and many went on to have Good SL & International careers for England/GB.
In Your 10 Year period of dominance How many players Have Saints provided for GB That YOU Produced? I Can think of about 4 or 5 maybe???

If your concern is more about how many foreign players Wigan are playing each week then :-
Considering the Turmoil the club went through Late 2004/05/06 I don't think weve recovered too badly thank you.
What is it of any concern to you ?

I have said it before I will say it again, The Saints fans are becoming the total embodiment of everything they say they used to hate about Wiganers!
Know it all pompus kn0bs!

You don't know any better than us, you don't know more about rugby than us, You don't have better Morals regarding the future of British RL more than us.

Your team is Just winning more than us at the moment!

At some point this will change, Will you be right about everything then?

No-one kicks ass quite like you!!

this is what leeds do every year! leave room incase we need to bring anyone in due to injuries or if some becomes avalable who fits the bill

so good on saints. but it does seem like they are in a position where if they have a few injuries the kids are in apossed to the kids been blooded and brought on a little at a time. but in at the deep end in a team like saints could see some young kids fast tracked into top players.

Ive had another Idea!

Why don't we cut away from all this crap about Kolpac/Federation/Club trained B0ll0x and just say You can only have 3 Non GB Eligible players in your squad from next season and You must have say 10 Players from Your own Academy in your 1st team 25 squad.

I'm up for that, anyone else?

Given 2 x years we'll be at the Top of the Pile (With leeds) again and then all the rest can go and think of ways to drag us back again like they had to 14 years ago!

And remember, we were a million miles better & closer to the Aussies than we are now!

And Wigan have done the same last couple of years. His point is?

They have taken a concious decision! How does he know that? Maybe their cost cutting? I remember Wigan doing a similar thing a few years back!

Certainly am.

Count me in

Sounds like a good idea to me.

Saints already have 18 players from the academy in the (30man) first team squad, and only 5 non-GB eligible players - so we release Flannery and Cayless and we are there already.

No Probs!

I take it you won't be going overseas then in the next 2/3 years to replace Cayless/KFC/LONG/Wellens/Gidley/Gilmour etc when they need replacing in the next couple of years then will you?

We will soon see How good you are then!

not sure what you are on about mate? i thought i had made myself perfectly clear or are you on about someone else?to be honest i dont get your point. hows the best backline in the league going for ya?

i thought there was, but clearly not.




it did, and it does - not just with Wigan



I do want the GB/England team to improve, I was in Australia in November embarrased by what was on display. Wilkin and Gardner contribute a lot more to the England team than any foreign player does.



bit of a tenuos question. do you want names of every back that has come through to play first team?

there will be at least one playing in the first team tonight, how many did Wigan have last week?


I'll tell you what!



last season we went through a large proportion of the early season half our pack missing. Fozzard, Cayless and Fa'asavalu all spent a long time sat on the sidelines, along with Sculthorpe and Bennett.



stability brought about by what? long term thinking and investing in academy systems for one.



I asked the question earlier in the thread and never got an answer: of the Wigan team that won the WCC in 1994 in Brisbane, how many of that team came through the Wigan youth system, how many were bought in and how many overseas players were there?



In the "great" Wigan team of the 8 year domination, off the top of my head, most of the notable players were all bought in: Connolly, Platt, Hanley, Offiah, Botica, Gregory, Lydon, Robinson, Tuigamala, Gene, Bell, Paul, the Iro's.

Clarke, Betts, Farrell, Edwards, Radlinski (towards the end) came through the youth systems....and no doubt you will be able to name more - but hardly a great endorsement of such domination.



I agree - from where you were, to turn it round in 3 years is a pretty good achievement, but you have to admit that it has been built on signing players (mainly foreign) rather than playing English youth.



its not massively, apart from the overall wellbeing of English RL - however, this is supposed to be a discussion forum where people with different points of view come together to discuss things - not everyone will agree with you.



maybe so.



again, all just differing opinions.




i will always be right

Personally, I hope we dont we go overseas to replace that lot - although I am sure we will to replace at least some of them.

I do want the GB/England team to improve, I was in Australia in November embarrased by what was on display. Wilkin and Gardner contribute a lot more to the England team than any foreign player does.


And so was I, and 1/2 dozen knock ons apiece may be more of a contribution than a foreign player would make but it's one I could have lived without!

There cack!

but they are better than anything any other club have to offer to the England team. Perhaps if other clubs in SL were more competitive these guys would be pushed to improve more - until then they are still the best England can offer.


and you cannot deny that if more clubs had as many English players as Saints/Leeds there would be more competition for places in the team.

They may have been the best available (I'm not sure i believe that to be honest) but that doesnt make them any good!
Our SL Top try scorer was outplayed on the other wing by a bloke who's been ridiculed at Wigan for 2 1/2 years!

PS

Not got time to reply to the other stuff, Got to go!

Brickmakers here I come!

happy to continue the discussion any time! have a safe journey to Hull.

When? When you were mentioning how we'd been built on purchases rather than youth products?

IMO there's only Clough so far that's come in recently and cemented a first team spot, the rest I agree, are still wait and see.

Someone hit a raw nerve

As others have said, there are too many grey areas for that to work.

However, there is nothing to stop Wigan, or nay other team for that matter, helping out local amateur clubs now. I'm sure that closer involvement with those teams would reap dividends for any club that did it. Not everyone goes for the biggest contract on offer, and sometimes good treatment previously helps someone make up their mind.