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| Quote ="NickyKiss"The metres the props make in Oz seem incredible in comparison to ours, yet when you watch the games they seem to be making the same amount of ground as the guys in Superleague do. I’m sure there’s some favourable counting going on down under.'"
Apparently in the NRL they count metres from when the player receives the ball. Over here they do it from when they go over the advantage line.
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| Quote ="The Yellow Giraffe"Apparently in the NRL they count metres from when the player receives the ball. Over here they do it from when they go over the advantage line.'"
I believe so. Hardaker was talking about it a week or so ago, saying that some of the metres quoted in Aus seemed artificially high.
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| Ryan Sutton played a lot of last season in the second row and even filled in at loose forward on occasions
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| Quote ="The Yellow Giraffe"Apparently in the NRL they count metres from when the player receives the ball. Over here they do it from when they go over the advantage line.'"
Makes more sense the NRL way of counting to be fair
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| Many have more pressing problems to worry about at the moment than how meters are calculated!
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| Quote ="100% Warrior"Makes more sense the NRL way of counting to be fair'"
Not really. The NRL way does not make sense. How can it be metres gained when the ball is passed backwards from where the PTB is? Metres are only gained once the player gets past the point of the last PTB, anything less is a loss of metres.
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| Quote ="The_Enforcer"Not really. The NRL way does not make sense. How can it be metres gained when the ball is passed backwards from where the PTB is? Metres are only gained once the player gets past the point of the last PTB, anything less is a loss of metres.'"
what if there is a chargedown and the ball goes back 20 meters and someone picks it up beats 3 men and makes 19 meters? your saying he should be put down as a minus 1?
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| Quote ="Pieman"what if there is a chargedown and the ball goes back 20 meters and someone picks it up beats 3 men and makes 19 meters? your saying he should be put down as a minus 1?'"
No because the play was forced backwards 20 metres by the opposition so from the moment the ball is picked up, any metres run forward are metres gained and its a new set of six tackles so the position of the last PTB is irrelevant.
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| Quote ="Ruddy Duck"Many have more pressing problems to worry about at the moment than how meters are calculated!'"
Wish I'd never mentioned it
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| Quote ="The_Enforcer"No because the play was forced backwards 20 metres by the opposition so from the moment the ball is picked up, any metres run forward are metres gained and its a new set of six tackles so the position of the last PTB is irrelevant.'"
but you said - Metres are only gained once the player gets past the point of the last PTB, anything less is a loss of metres.
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| Quote ="Pieman"but you said - Metres are only gained once the player gets past the point of the last PTB, anything less is a loss of metres.'"
Correct, but in your example, the last PTB is irrelevant as the ball has been played at by the opposition who have forced play backwards 20 metres. The tackle count has now been wiped clean and the moment the attacking player picks the ball up is essentially like the first PTB. Any metres run forward from this point are now metres gained. If the defending team pushes the attacking player back behind the point he picked the ball up, this would be metres lost.
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| Metres gained is surely a metric of an individual's performance with ball in hand, not a measure of how deep the attacking line sits.
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| Quote ="The_Enforcer"Correct, but in your example, the last PTB is irrelevant as the ball has been played at by the opposition who have forced play backwards 20 metres. The tackle count has now been wiped clean and the moment the attacking player picks the ball up is essentially like the first PTB. Any metres run forward from this point are now metres gained. If the defending team pushes the attacking player back behind the point he picked the ball up, this would be metres lost.'"
so drop outs and kick offs are right then?
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| Quote ="Pieman"so drop outs and kick offs are right then?'"
Yes, quite simple, the ball has been kicked by the opposition. From the moment its caught and returned, these are metres gained by the team with the ball in a brand new set of six, its no different than a team kicking on the 5th tackle and the fullback returning it.
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| Quote ="The_Enforcer"Yes, quite simple, the ball has been kicked by the opposition. From the moment its caught and returned, these are metres gained by the team with the ball in a brand new set of six, its no different than a team kicking on the 5th tackle and the fullback returning it.'"
so thats what was said at the start then, should be made from when the person gets the ball not just the advantage line
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| Quote ="Pieman"so thats what was said at the start then, should be made from when the person gets the ball not just the advantage line'"
No its completely different. After a kick or charge down, there is no longer an advantage line because its a brand new set of six tackles. I'll give you that its a bit of a grey area as the player returning the ball will sometimes get easy yards but they are still metres gained in the set of six tackles. Passing the ball backwards 10 metres to a player who only runs 8 metres on the 3rd tackle is quite clearly not 8 metres gained and recording the stats in this way is quite simply crazy. You could have a player losing 2 metres from the advantage line every carry but being awarded 8 metres gained and another player that actually makes 5 metres over the advantage line every carry from flat balls and the player who lost 2 metres on every carry will have a higher metres gained stat at the end of the match.
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| The real number the clubs look for is metres after contact. The numbers released are inflated sometimes but its like the tackle charts, if you put your hand on as third man in then thats classed as a tackle. Once upon a time it was a tackle assist. The clubs have acess to the real numbers what matter. The ones published are a rough guide.
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| Quote ="JonnyBroad"The real number the clubs look for is metres after contact. The numbers released are inflated sometimes but its like the tackle charts, if you put your hand on as third man in then thats classed as a tackle. Once upon a time it was a tackle assist. The clubs have acess to the real numbers what matter. The ones published are a rough guide.'"
There's obviously some interpretation involved but I know for sure that's not how they calculate tackles, here at least.
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| Quote ="The_Enforcer"No its completely different. After a kick or charge down, there is no longer an advantage line because its a brand new set of six tackles. I'll give you that its a bit of a grey area as the player returning the ball will sometimes get easy yards but they are still metres gained in the set of six tackles. Passing the ball backwards 10 metres to a player who only runs 8 metres on the 3rd tackle is quite clearly not 8 metres gained and recording the stats in this way is quite simply crazy. You could have a player losing 2 metres from the advantage line every carry but being awarded 8 metres gained and another player that actually makes 5 metres over the advantage line every carry from flat balls and the player who lost 2 metres on every carry will have a higher metres gained stat at the end of the match.'"
some someone picking up a pass beats 2 men and gains 8 metres but give him a minus 2 but someone can gain 20 from a booming kick?......give over
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| Quote ="Pieman"some someone picking up a pass beats 2 men and gains 8 metres but give him a minus 2 but someone can gain 20 from a booming kick?......give over'"
How would he beat 2 men? In the example used, the ball is passed backwards 10 metres from the PTB. That would require the defensive line to of advanced in front of the last PTB. Ive never seen a defence that quick unless they were all stood a mile offside.
You're argument is sheer lunacy. It rewards a loss of metres forward and records it as a gain. Its like getting on the M6 Motorway at Standish, driving south 10 miles then turning around and driving back north 8 miles and saying you are 8 miles closer to Preston than you were when you started the journey. Crazy.
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| so you've never seen a poor pass from dummy half to a player who picks the ball up and the defence is on them?.....really?
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| Quote ="Pieman"so you've never seen a poor pass from dummy half to a player who picks the ball up and the defence is on them?.....really?'"
Thats an unintended error, of course in that situation it gives the defence more time to move up if the ball lands on the floor and does not go to a player. Now you are just being awkward. The fact is that during the normal run of a game, the defensive line should never end up in front of the attacking teams last PTB. If that happens it is always classed as a loss in metres except in your world where you would register it as a gain.
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| im being awkward? I have given you examples where people steal cheeky yards and are counted and say its the same as when you catch the ball it should count as then its same across the board, you have argued it all down and brought up a ridiculous example yet im being awkward? The NRL rule is far better as its black and white, last one from me this, if a passing play sweeps from one side of the pitch to the other thus causing the ball to be backwards 10 yards from when it started as its been passed lets say 5 times, you think by your own words a defender should be no where near them on the last pass as they should have got no where near the advantage line? ......ill leave that one with you to ponder
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| Quote ="Pieman"im being awkward? I have given you examples where people steal cheeky yards and are counted and say its the same as when you catch the ball it should count as then its same across the board, you have argued it all down and brought up a ridiculous example yet im being awkward? The NRL rule is far better as its black and white, last one from me this, if a passing play sweeps from one side of the pitch to the other thus causing the ball to be backwards 10 yards from when it started as its been passed lets say 5 times, you think by your own words a defender should be no where near them on the last pass as they should have got no where near the advantage line? ......ill leave that one with you to ponder'"
You are talking about multiple passes now and trying to find a way to justify what is a stupid idea. That was never the argument. The argument was that the hooker throws the ball back 10 metres and the player that catches it runs 8 metres forward and should be awarded an 8 metre gain even though he lost 2 metres from the position of the last PTB. Its the most ridiculous thing ive ever heard.
You simply cannot claim a gain if the player had lost metres, that is basic common sense that even a 5 year old could get their head around.
If you want to award players metres as you are trying to argue it would have to be a seperate stat for metres run, not metres gained, two very different things.
Lets put it a different way, since your (NRL) way of doing things does not differentiate from metres run and metres gained, would you count metres run sideways and backwards as well? After all, they are still metres the player has run.
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| How has Williams been performing since his man of the match ward?
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