Jeez... He has Issues...

In a civil court you don't have to prove anything, only show that something occurred on the balance of probabilities.

www.therfl.co.uk/the-rfl/disciplinary/item?5847 I'm not sure how the legal system works in these matters but does the fact that Hohaia submitted an early GUILTY plea to an offence (and received a ban for it) prior to the retaliation from Flower not come into play here. www.therfl.co.uk/the-rfl/disciplinary/item?5848 Also the RFL summery on the Flower suspension states that Hohaia had not suffered serious injury from Flower's actions. This season so far he has made 8 appearances for St Helens, made 196 tackles, 64 carries with 35 from dummy half. I sincerely hope Hohaia is fine and his health going forward is not effected but any legal action against Ben Flower does appear to be legal minefield.

www.therfl.co.uk/the-rfl/disciplinary/item?5847 I'm not sure how the legal system works in these matters but does the fact that Hohaia submitted an early GUILTY plea to an offence (and received a ban for it) prior to the retaliation from Flower not come into play here. www.therfl.co.uk/the-rfl/disciplinary/item?5848 Also the RFL summery on the Flower suspension states that Hohaia had not suffered serious injury from Flower's actions. This season so far he has made 8 appearances for St Helens, made 196 tackles, 64 carries with 35 from dummy half. I sincerely hope Hohaia is fine and his health going forward is not effected but any legal action against Ben Flower does appear to be legal minefield.

Are you an Ostrich?

Rather ironic that LH retires the same time that Saints need a full back.

Maybe reading too much into it.

Problem is just before any civil action that can be bought into question he has to be certain he will win or it could cost him a fortune in fees. After all 2 players hit each other and if the consequences is if its those 2 punches from Flower that did the damage then LH need to learn to keep his hands to himself just as Flower should have done. After all Flower could have suffered an eye socket damage.

LH is been portrayed as the victim in this which he is not. He is as much to blame as Flower is and he should learn to accept responsibility for his actions. Just as Flower has and will continue to do so.

Problem in this entire issue is that no Saints or not many will accept that LH did anything wrong.

I'm not sure what relevance that has to the issue of Hohaia's retirement. Unless you're saying it was self-defence.

If Lance had done what he set out when he snapped, Flower would have had a broken Jaw/Cheek. He would have been off the field, you'd have lost and he would have been the bad guy.

As fortune had it for himself and Saints, he wasn't successful in doing that when he elbowed Flower and it's only what happened after that took the spotlight away from his deliberate attempt to hurt someone, he should have seen red also. Laugh all you like, but he was no angel and Flower could have come out of it much worse off than Hohaia did, like I say, it was just good fortune he didn't and ended up the victim of his own cheap shot. The alternate scenario could so easily have been that his team lost the Grand final and he gets a long ban.

Typical reaction by a Saints fan in denial.

Can not accept that LH was in the wrong as well.

As well as having to get rid of him to bring in another player. At Wigan its called youth development at Saints its Overseas Development.

They were both in the wrong technically, but Lance didn't drop his fist on someone who was already out cold on the floor, did he?

You make an interesting point, it would appear that Lance was OK post-Flowergate. During this time he trained which includes some pretty hard training and it's only after he has retuned to playing which would seem to infer that there is a trigger in one of the games since playing, presumably a bang to the head? As it wasn't there before his return to playing, post the Grand Final by Lance's statement.

As many have posted, it's the single bang to the head that matters and not the cumulative effect in this particular case. With the lack of issue prior to playing again this would really suggest that the injury is one which has recently happened in a game in this season.

ha ha, is this still going on?

the topic is lances retirement, not who punched who.

the whole issue has been mishandled in my opinion, I think the investigations should have happened with lance remaining a saints player, whether actually playing or not, until more is know about what the next steps are. for all we know, lance is probably more than happy to accept his part in the GF incident and doesn't want to take it further, yet the issue with his retirement is simply coincidence. he has after all "forgiven" ben and has been very sporting in doing so, to which both players are trying to move on. poor lance probably doesn't want this topic bringing up again, heck its probably hanging over his head more than bens.

ultimately, the media coverage is fuelling a non-existent fire in my opinion. the RFL need to put a stop to it and bring a statement out asap. then saints can go back to bumming their new star FB and we can get on with our own things.

... crikey, the st Helens reporter seems to think they have all the answers already... www.sthelensreporter.co.uk/sport ... -1-7236515

... crikey, the st Helens reporter seems to think they have all the answers already... www.sthelensreporter.co.uk/sport ... -1-7236515

Quote ="WiganBurt"... crikey, the st Helens reporter seems to think they have all the answers already... www.sthelensreporter.co.uk/sport ... -1-7236515'" And now it's a liable case unless the paper has proof...

Quote ="WiganBurt"... crikey, the st Helens reporter seems to think they have all the answers already... www.sthelensreporter.co.uk/sport ... -1-7236515'" And now it's a liable case unless the paper has proof...

Libel*

Do you really want me to list how many Academy graduates currently playing for Saints?

P.S. who did you replace Sam Tomkins with?

Ssssshhhhhhhhhh.

Thanks for that, although capitalisation isn't required and so you should really have corrected that to "libel".

If the correction had been in context, then correct. But as it was a statement in and of itself, then the capitalisation is valid. And before you start on conjunctions starting sentences they're okay if used in coordinating independent statements.

I thank you

Dude, we've all seen plenty handbags and punches thrown over our years watching similar to Hohaia's (which indeed was an escalation to Flower's initial contact.). We've not seen many (if any) things as bad as Flower punching an unconscious man as he lay on the floor. Please stop implying that they were anywhere near the same level of severity.

[iIts also a bit boring listening to that section of Wigan fans clinging on to the whole "We only lost because of the red card" like a badge of honour.
There's no prize for second place and your lot were second place on GF night and during the weekly rounds. Dust yourself off and go again this season.[/i

Classic

Without reading the whole 12pages I don't know if it's already been asked. If lance has only had these symptoms since the GF, why have saints been allowed to play him. I thought the new laws of the game prevented a club playing a player with conclusion. Could lance claim against saints for making him play while showing the signs of concussion?

Maybe so mate, but no more so than hearing the 'we would have won it anyway' mantra that has emerged from the Saints ranks post GF despite the fact that not one pundit, journalist, bookie or fan (including most of your own) gave you a prayer before the match kicked off. It's a two way street my friend!

So what we've learned from this thread is that a lot of saints fans think this is Flower's fault and a lot of Wigan fans are saying that it's not.

No massive surprises here then.

My only hope is that whatever ails Mr Hohia is treatable, and that it has little or no bearing on his life going forward.....