I dont know how anyone can defend Fielden. He has been shown up by O'Carroll and now Prescott every week. He is supposed to be the pack leader yet he regulary gets manhandled and thrown around by smaller players and is consistantly making errors. He is either finished,got a long term injury or doesnt really have the heart to play for Wigan.

Doesn't quite work like that though I'm afraid!

Surely at the end of this year if things havent improved BN & IL can sit down with him and sort out a mutual release from his contract so he can go somewhere else and maybe have a couple of seasons with someone else? As i'm sure if his form continues like this for this year and next his stock as a player will be nil.

I think the Fielden situation highlights a possible problem with the contracts given to players.

I.e, 4 year deal on x amount. So many times I've heard a fan say 'but we're stuck with him for another 2 years now', which is a bad situation to be in.

Fielden would be mad to leave Wigan early when there's no way he could get that kind of deal any world in the world after how poor he's been in Cherry and white.

How much better would if be if the likes of Roberts and Riddell were signed for a year with the option of...x years. This could put the club in the drivning seat now the player.

Then after the first season, if a player wasn't performing we could release them freeing up cap space.

This would create-

-The play would be giving 100% rather than going through the motions.
-We wouldn't be 'stuck' with a player who is under performing.

Build in other aspects to the contracts, i.e bonuses for different things etc.

I don't like the idea that we're 'stuck' with players.

I absolutely agree; think it unlikely however because the overseas players will want the security a 3/4 year gives.

The only issue with that, is for it to work the Clubs would need to be in the driving seat, i.e. there be a greater supply of talented players on the market than the actual demand for them.

It seems the reverse is actually the case, a limited amount of talented players, with clubs competing for their attention.

It's also curious as to whether a player could be enticed over to the other side of the world for only 1 guaranteed season, unless it was something the player strongly desired (e.g. A 'out of favour/disgraced' or a player heading for retirement)

Also playing devil's advocate for a second, if you look at the 2008 versus 2005 stats.

He played only 4 more games in 05, but was given 102 more carries (more than 30% more ball)



Not trying to defend or attack Stu, it's just an interesting 'blip' on the stats.

2nd half of last season stuart was one of the top props in the comp and very unlucky to miss out on the england team.

I really thought that with a ful off season we would see him back to his best this season, but his game is way off for most of the season.

No signs of aggression going forward or fighting spirit if the goings tough.

I've always defended him butl there seems to be something significantly wrong at the moment - he just isn't displaying the desire of a champion player.

Tie in bonuses and incentives for the player to come over in the first place.

Fielden plays crap, still gets picked... Stop this favouritism crap Noble and pick players based on effort, commitment and performance and many of Wigan's problems will be solved.

And how do you offer them an incentive, that essentially not a big ass wedge for the first year? - And as far as I understand, non monetary incentives can still count on the salary cap, the do to HMRC for tax.

An incentive that doesn't have a direct salary cap implication, and that currently helps entice a player is stability, the prospect that club A believes in his ability and is prepared to commit to him over a prolonged period of time.

It's also interesting to know what your definition of option is, as most contract options tend to be 'mutual'. The issue with a mutual option is that if you sign a player on a 1+2 mutual option, and he sets the league on fire by the end of year 1, you then have a player who is essentially a hot property and completely free to walk if he chooses. The salary cap limits the size of the carrot a club can use to persuade the player to stay.

I'm not saying it's not possible for some players to be signed like this, but it's unrealistic to imagine it becoming a de facto way for contracts to work. The entire league would have to change to work this way, and i could see the clubs showing the collective solidarity of a pit of vipers. I'm not even sure if it would legal for them to get together and form such an agreement in the first place.

It's a fact at the moment that a fair number of players need to be offered a multi year deal to stand any chance of interesting them in the first place.

Quote ="Saint Simon"what has happened to him? Same coach, different player it is very strange www.superleague.co.uk/statistics ... eason=2009'" Wigan 2008 0 clean breaks (0 per game) 2397 metres (100 per game) Wigan 2007 4 clean breaks (1 per 7 games), 2500 metres (93 per game) Played for two clubs in 2006 Bradford 2005 14 clean breaks (1 per 2 games), 3448 metres (123 per game) Bradford 2004 15 clean breaks (1 per 2 games), 3181 metres (114 per game) The tackle busts don't seem to show any difference but I don't know how they're calculated as he often stands up straight, pushes against a player, bounces back and runs in again, which may well count as a tackle bust on the stats.

Quote ="Saint Simon"what has happened to him? Same coach, different player it is very strange www.superleague.co.uk/statistics ... eason=2009'" Wigan 2008 0 clean breaks (0 per game) 2397 metres (100 per game) Wigan 2007 4 clean breaks (1 per 7 games), 2500 metres (93 per game) Played for two clubs in 2006 Bradford 2005 14 clean breaks (1 per 2 games), 3448 metres (123 per game) Bradford 2004 15 clean breaks (1 per 2 games), 3181 metres (114 per game) The tackle busts don't seem to show any difference but I don't know how they're calculated as he often stands up straight, pushes against a player, bounces back and runs in again, which may well count as a tackle bust on the stats.

Was he though? I think he was hyped up by the likes of matty eliot, stevo and eddie. Not denying he was a good player, but best prop in the world. i don't think so. IMO he was protected and cossetted by refs and in the early years, no-one was allowedto touch him. As for the comment someone made re, all he needs is to wallop bailey, i don't think he can, if he ever could! Think bailey would deck him, in fact all opposition props are queing up to have a pop at him.

Barry McDermott may disagree on that point.

It was me who suggested giving Bailey a crack, nobody likes Bailey, he is a niggly bugger and is gaining a reputation for being a bit of a head the ball who likes a scrap, all we need is for Fielden to go to town on him and no doubt Peacock will be straight in fists flying and Fielden needs to have a toe to toe with Peacock too and then and only then would he gain his reputation back as a hard man who you don't mess with, I know superleague players who used to be scared to death of Fielden whether it be tackling or running at and now they just laugh at him and aint bothered one bit!!!

As a Wigan fan I expect my props to take no messing about ala Skerrett, Platt, Pongia, O'Connor, Smith, Cowie, Palea'aesina not pushed about and ridiculed by every player in the league.

If he sets his stall out on one the 'hard men' in the league only then will he get his status back. Anyone like Bailey, Peacock, Cunningham, Fa'asavalu, Newton, Morley, Mason, Sculthorpe, Ryles. Any player who is handy or likes a scrap.

His best chance is Jason Ryles on Monday.

Let me get thris straight. Your convinced that a scrap with Bailey would make Stuart Fielden?

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't it a scrap with Mason that hugely contributed to his downfall?

Stuart Fielden needs a good kicking up where the sun don't shine. I've always stuck up for him but it is getting to the point where its near impossible too.

After Fielden got floored off Mason he should have banjoed Mason and anyone else who wanted to join in and should have made a point of rushing in the big hit Mason and running at him all game and had a scrap with him if he wanted to and to get the same respect and fear off all the other players but no he wimped out.

The next game against Aus he should have done this but no he just acted hard and now opposition players laugh at him, have a look on the popular video sharing website, the Cas game is on and it shows Fielden getting owned off Mitchell Sargeant who is cack, the stats don't show how easily you got tackled do they?

Its like Chuck Liddell in UFC, once was top drawer and now he is getting pasted off everyone, his fight aganst Shogun Rua is probably his last decent fight and if he doesn't win considerably his career is finished. Its the same with Fielden, he has turned into a pudding and if he payed for Saints we would be laughing our heads off, he really needs to pull his finger out because it is embarrassing to watch our 'Number 1 enforcer prop' getting owned by every player in the league.
It would have never happened to Skerrett!

His Mum died before he went to Australia, what do you think was going through his head in that game. Thats why he didn't react to Mason.

As we saw last year with Peacock, when he p1553d off Fielden we saw the fire return.

Thats why he needs a scrap with some numpty who nobody likes, if he leathered Rob Burrow everyone would hate him, he needs to leather someone like Bailey or we are stuck with a carboard cut out player for next year.

You can quote stats saying he does loads of tackles but they don't show how important or easy the miss tackles were or how hard the tackles were.
You could say Coley makes loads of yards but he doesn't run the ball in hard to hurt or tire the opposition in the way Hock does.

Care to elaborate? Or is that the sum total of your contribution?

I would say it's obvious. For Fielden to get back to his best he should punch Ryan Bailey.



Call me a traditionalist but he could try running hard and catching the ball first before he invites another pasting in the fisticuff stakes.

Then again, I shouldn't be surprised bearing in mind it's coming from the man who said:

Bit light in the pack comparing you to last year, you lost Sculthorpe, Bennett and Fozzard with Gilmour going to centre.
You are lighter in the pack based on last year.

With the punching Bailey comment, it might sound silly and a hard line attitude but in a nutshell its what he needs to do, but you are trying to make it sound stupid with you do gooder comments, this is the toughest sport in the world appart from 'live bear and alligator escape from a straight jacket competiton in a cage'.

I would rather him get the fear and respect back the proper way but for the last 3 years he has been trying he has been laughed at and riduculed!

I take it you didn't see him wimp out against Crabtree, it made me feel sick to see a Wigan prop poo in his pants, he should have just snotted him there and then. Do you think the likes of Peacock and Morley would have took a backwards step? Neither do I.

I agree that Fielden does need to do the ol 'yed down n thrutch' but most people who have watched Wigan for some time will tell you that Fielden's at his best when there's a little red mist coming down. I recall a game towards the end of last season when another forward gave him a clout; Fielden's response was to slam everyone in the tackle and smash them in the hit-ups. He was amazing that game.

I don't necessarily agree that Fielden needs to go looking for a scrap but he does need to stand up and be counted when someone offers him out. He either needs to grow a pair or be kicked in what he's got if he's to be effective.

Was that against Wire? the game that kick started his good form I think. He was also good against Leeds when he had a run in with Peacock, when he took the next drive and got smashed by 5 Leeds players, didnt take a step back and had that look in his eyes was fantastic. A big factor in our strong finish to the season was Feka's improved fitness and Fielden's regained form IMO. He was extremely unlucky not to get in the England squad too

I was dissapointed when Fielden backed down from Crabtree the other week, if it had been a few months earlier he would of stood up but he didn't

Hopefully Ryles gives him a high shot early on so he gets his 'crazy eyes' but Ryles would probably put him on his before he got his crazy eyes