Williams will stay with the U19's
Spencer on loan with Leigh.
Greenwood will probably go on dual reg with South Wales.

Thanks for that.
I was just wondering.
I was speaking with someone at work regarding all the Warrington fringe players on dual reg with Swinton and didn't recall any similar deal being announced.

Where's Gelling going to play to get match fitness?

Wigan RU

We have a friendly v South Wales at Orrell on Saturday. Most of the reserve first team members will get a run out in that.

So basically, you are struggling to give game time to the 'overage' players from last year ?

From our crop, we have three in the U19's (Benion, Saltonstall, Currie), six signed with Swinton (Riley, Shaw, Ormsby, Morrison, Burke and Mendeika), and one at Bradford (Evans ). That still leaves another 4, some of whom are playing at Swinton as DR's. But it looks as though the coaches are working overtime to find suitable game time each week.

And of course, that still leaves the 'small' problem of the first team squad.

South Wales haven't started their season yet, so I expect some to play down there.
Spencer is at Leigh.
Hampshire, Williams, Burgess, Lever, Tierney, Farrell and Manfredi are still in the U19's. (5 of them still U18's)

If only the Superleague clubs had adopted the U23's recommendations, this mess would never have happened.

If I'm not mistaken, Logan Tomkins, Lloyd, Gelling, Crosby, Carberry, Greenwood, Bullock, Crowe and Lyon-Fraser are all overage and have yet to play a competitive game so far this year. Murphy and Spencer are both overage but loaned out. I'm not sure what the situation is with Bullock, Crowe and Lyon-Fraser; they appeared in some pre-season games but I wasn't really expecting any of them to be kept on as they were bit part players in the under 20's last year.

Gelling can't be loaned out which is a bit of a problem as he isn't good enough at the moment to make the squad and that's with Hansen and Tuson out. When Lauaki returns I presume he will also be unable to go out on loan or dual reg so he will have to be in the first team squad most weeks at the expense of one of our current first team props and so whoever misses out will need to find somewhere to get game time.

With Wigan's link up being with South Wales it's hardly going to be good for our players to go there. The only ones who will really benefit are players needing match fitness after injury and those unlikely to be good enough. Last years under 20's was better quality than Champ 1 and this year with the new teams brought in and established teams promoted the quality is likely to be reduced again.

I really don't see the benefits of these changes at all. It seems like an absolutely ludicrous idea.

I am a bit surprised about Gelling, I always thought he looked quality, but players do come through at different rates.
And your U19's is a little gold mine with the likes of Ryan and George.

I am hoping that the anger generated in the Championship will force the chairmen to re-think the U23 idea. Also, I think we need the U18's back - we have two 16 yr olds and 10 17 yrs playing in our U19's at the moment, and that must be far from ideal from a physical perspective. With Bradford and Salford getting new money this year it might help to reverse these changes and to invest in the youth system again.

All 3 have not been released because they were given new contracts before the start of last season that last until the end of this season. I know 1 of the players contracts gave the club an option to sign him full time after 2 yrs which says to me that someone at the club, ie their coaches at the time Darren Fletcher / Pete Williams thought they had potential. So they obviously weren't seen as 'bit part players'

The way to see if that potential could be realised was by giving them decent game time, this of course didnt happen last season, with the new coach playing the same players every week, with these lads getting 10 mins off the bench or not being picked at all. Considering that 1 of them played in SOL's testimonial and was up against Cudjoe for an hour and kept him out of the game, was a surprise.

All of them did get several games with South Wales, all doing very well, 1 even getting MOM in a game.

Apparently they have now been told [uthey[/u need to find new clubs, I emphasise 'they' meaning to do it themselves.

Thanks to the SL Chairman, including our very own, they are now in limbo. It will be very hard for them to find a new club to take them on, especially without any help from Wigan as most clubs will have their squads sorted out. I could see clubs agreeing to take them on loan, but Wigan wouldn't want that as it would leave them still having to pay their wages

Sounds like another shambles then. I can't say I was too impressed with Lyon-Fraser or Bullock when I saw them play but Crow often impressed me which is why I was surprised that he seemed to fall out of favour last year.

If they have been told that they need to find new clubs it sounds like they aren't going to be sent on dual registration to South Wales which is a shame for them because they are players who would actually benefit from playing there. As for the rest of the squad I just don't see what they are going to gain from playing in South Wales. For some it won't provide much benefit and will just be a massive pain in the backside having to travel down there when they can't get a first team game or a loan deal elsewhere.

Didn't our Chairman vote against the changes?

No, Leeds together with Wigan were the ring-leaders behind pushing through the changes.

Why would Wigan push through something that doesn't benefit them one little bit?

i believe there are multiple versions of event being told, wigan being for and against depending on who you speak to.

It saves them money which is what getting rid of the u20's was all about. Just stains and wire objected, but where they have both managed to find a partner club, Wigan of course hasn't, which is quite ironic really.

Going O/T slightly I know, but like you I was also impressed with Crowe and thought potentially wise he was up there with Burke and Carberry in his age group and expected him to kick on further last season. Obviously John Winder had his own ideas and for some reason, I'd be interested to hear what it was, he didn't appear willing to give him the game time to do this. In the couple of games when he did get some time on the pitch, I think it was Widnes and Warrington away, he certainly showed what he could do when given the chance.

Hopefully if/when he does go elsewhere, he doesn't come back to haunt us in the future.

Back on topic, as you say what is the point of sending players like Burke , Powell and others who now have played Super League out to Scorpions, they need at least a Championship team or better still a loan to another SL club, but I think Wigan may have missed the boat.

But if we want a team full of academy products which IFL has constantly said is the dream, then why would we jeopardise that by getting rid of the U20s? Just doesn't sound right to me.

From what I understand he got "convinced" of the proposal by Hetherington and got behind it 100%. What was Hetherington's motivation I'm not sure (but he is from Yorkshire who are stereotyped as being tight-fisted when it comes to money). Certainly Wigan and Leeds have the two biggest catchment pools from local amateur clubs at youth level so never go short for quality recruits whilst there are numerous other clubs just looking to cut costs anywhere at the moment.

I certainly don't think Wigan's development staff supported the idea (but didn't get a say) and once the realisation of how many players already contracted outside of u19s eligibility and the first team 17 panic mode set in at Wigan.

These players now caught in limbo at Wigan are the unfortunate victims. There is various criticisms about Warrington's link-up with Swinton but it does at least mean that probably six or so players are still being developed in a fulltime environment who would otherwise be lost to that level of development.

Lyon Fraser tore his hamstring in pre season just before Christmas so couldn't play until the game at South Wales. ,

Leeds also have the advantage of being able to place players at their kick and clap club.

I thought Hetherington's motivation was the fact that he believes it is obvious as to whether a player is SL standard by the time they are 18/19. So there is no point in keeping these players to age 20 and above. I am certain he is quoted on this, but I can not find the reference at the moment. With a large pool of young players available to Leeds, he is probably not bothered even if he is wrong (Chris Hill anyone ?).

But to be fair for every Chris Hill there are probably 50 or more players who have come through the Superleague academy systems who are now playing lower division amatuer or not even playing at all.

As you know I have been one of those most against the changes this year.

That is a fair point. But remember, the RFL's own data show that for every intake of U16,s , only two will become SL players. So it is difficult to predict who will, and who will not 'make it'. Yes, there are stand out players of an early age, who everyone will agree are going to be stars of the future, but I am not sure about the rest. Could you with any certainty pick out who will, and will not succeed from the current Wigan U18's ?

Either way, getting rid of the U20 (overage) class was a horrendous cock up. There is nowhere to play the 1st team squad members as well as the over 19's. It has set Championship chairmen against one another, caused a furore within their supporters, created an awful lot of ill will towards the SL clubs, and seriously eroded the value of the Championship.

Some players are still growing at 19 and 20.