Remember after the Roosters WCC loss in Sydney a few years back the coaching staff identified one of the major differences was how much bigger the Roosters were and that Wigan needed to address the problem ?

What has happened since then ? if anything the team is smaller meaning the forwards struggle to lay a platform and are easily dominated.

It was evident in the game v Souths in Sydney and against Warrington that was one of the most embarrassing performances I've seen from a Wigan team.
Recruitment and retention for next season is going to be the most important in recent history and top of the list must be getting some big strong players who can get the team on the front foot and much holes in defences.

It didn’t matter 2 weeks previous when those players bothered to turn up and put a shift in. Unless we’re playing Aus teams in the WCC most weeks our ‘lack of size’ isn’t an issue.

Far worse issues at Wigan RL than needing a few more pounds and inches in the forwards.

The old phrase of ‘a good big un is better than a good little un’ springs to mind but 2 weeks ago, that same pack absolutely dominated Warrington. I think the game has changed and it’s more important to have a mobile pack, particularly if the number of substitutions is reduced. I do agree that our recruitment is key but I’d still stand by my view that we simply have to prioritise scrum half above any other position.

Couldn’t agree more, mobility is key rather than size. Much rather a pack of John Batemans than Fekas.

Also agree that our number one problem is getting a good 7. An experienced half back to take us round the field and I think we’d see things fall into place and the return of the marquee George Williams.

Yep, Williams has been hammered on here and whilst I accept his form hasn’t been great, some of the abuse towards him has been way over the top. Powell on the other hand seems free from criticism when in actual fact, he’s the worst player to wear the Wigan number 7 shirt in a long long time. He creates nothing but people defend him because he tackles well (usually, aside from letting Kevin Brown of all people run over him). I’ve seen people say it’s unfair to criticise him because we turned him into a 9 but now asking him to play 7. I don’t go with that either. He’s not good enough to be our starting 7 or 9 and is nothing more than a squad player who can cover both.
Williams is having to try to create everything and it was the same when Smith was here. He’s a class player but needs some help from the other halfback. It’s no coincidence that our left edge has been far more effective than our right and it all starts with GW.

It mattered last week against Hull KR, every Wigan fan should be concerned with the lack of firepower in this current side. I'm a neutral by the way.

Well last week was a bad day the office wasn’t it or so some would have you believe,you only had to look at hill yesterday he as imense carries on all day long if they’d have asked him to our props looked knackered after 5 mins,don’t gwt me going on BMM another huge player and whose size alone causes sides so many issues great signing by Wire that lad.

Disagree, a quick ruck wins games as does fitness. Big players don’t have the same effect.

Recently heard a current Saints player saying that agile forwards beat big forwards any day and that’s what the current Saints team is built around with the exception of Walmsley. Not working out too poorly for them.

So the ideal solution is a big but agile forward then? Of which we don’t have any of those at Wigan .

Pack was playing on the back foot all game. Warrington brought a great attitude, a desperation to win, the lose at the magic weekend gave them the hunger to win. They played with pace, veracity and power to null all what we did.

Our issue? No leadership. No one to steady the ship, no one to take charge. No one to recognise what was happening and manipulate the game in our favour.
Also, our link play wasn't there. we played flat and created very little with ball in hand in key parts of the pitch.

For me, Lockers had a poor game. It happens.

you need a scrum half IMO

Where were we when Wire snapped up Roberts?

Under the illusion that Powell would be good enough!!

And the sad thing is that the standards over here have become so poor that Roberts looked like a world class player when all he did was what you would expect any average half back to do.

The Roberts who's had one good game all season and has been slated all year by those who watch him regularly? As a marquee signing he's been on a par with Williams so far.

The thing that’s getting me at the minute is how we continually bang on about our “world class” youth production line, but yet name a truly world class player it’s produced recently?

I look at Saints with envy to be totally honest. The likes of Makinson, Richardson, Percival, Grace and Thompson all brought through their ranks and looking for all money like some of them may well become world class.

Meanwhile we’ve brought through Burgess, Gildart, Williams, Powell, Davies, Sutton and Marshall who, don’t get me wrong on their day are good but they’re nowhere near the standard of Saints’ academy graduates IMHO.

Apols for going OT slightly and regarding the OP I’m a suckler for big aggressive take no sh*t forwards but I completely agree that the modern prop has to be more than a bully boy. A hybrid would be nice but they’re few and far between these days.

What does Tony clubb weigh in at these days? He looks a big bugger but i found it surprising as a former centre he ended up as a prop

Hold on a second. Makinson is a good player but he wasn't as good as Burgess when he was in form, hence why Budgie was generally favoured for the England side. We produced Manfredi who was the best English winger until getting cruelly injured. And Davies isn't far behind Makinson even though he's only been professional for a couple of years. Grace is no better than Marshall - flashy, exciting, occasionally a bit of a liability. Davies is definitely better than Grace.
Richardson is having a cracking breakthrough year but he looks no better than Williams did at the same age. His progression in the next few years will be telling.
Percival is a cracking talent, best young English centre but the second best is probably Gildart and there's not a huge difference between them when they're both on form. Gildart is playing better now his future has been sorted.
And I'd say Thompson isn't massively better than Sutton but simply plays in a side that uses their props a lot more effectively. Sutton seems to have a little bit more about him in terms of handling ability (although I haven't seen as much of Thompson so could be wrong).

I really can't understand the negativity you have towards our academy products given the ones you mention either aren't better or are only slightly better.

Ever heard of Ruben Wiki?

Saved me a load of typing, thanks. My thoughts exactly.

Cherry and white specs on hits a new high. Manfredi the best English winger? Over Hall? Makinson is clearly head and shoulders over Davies, however given time he could be similar (if he has regular ball and a good centre). Marshall? Please don't get me started. Another error filled game, highlight was Charnley looking at him keeping him at arms length as he desperately was trying to do something.

That's funny because just a fortnight ago Marshall rinsed Charnley for 80 minutes.

Could you post which markers you're using to support your view that Makinson is "head and shoulders" above Davies? Last time I looked Davies was leading Makinson on most stats although if that has significantly changed to a point where Makinson's are now significantly superior then I'm happy to accept your view.

Deluded.

oh damn it's Phuzzy...