It seems that this james grant agency likes to take league players to union after taking chris ashton and what looks like joel to rugby union. surely there must be something we can do to stop this happening. maybe not let this agency get involved with anyone in our team.

then another agency will do it, then another........

sadly, money talks!

i think that the rfl has to take a look at things and try and find some conclusion that will help things like this happening again its getting ridiculous

Its is rediculous how they have someone emplyed to 'spot a rugby league player with the potential to switch to union.'

why is it getting ridiculous, we did it for years and it was ok, boot on the other foot and it's the end of our game, there aren't half some drama queens on this site ffs

Im sick of seeing this excuse to be honest. Just because we did it to them for years doesnt mean we should bend over and let them do it to us now.

exactly somethign needs to be done otherwise we are gonna end up with hardly any english players in our division and then the national team is gonna get even worse

I think some people need to go and do a bit of research about restraint of trade regulations before embarrassing themselves further.

yeah and we gave them a living. When they came to us they were not being paid by union. Also when a player left there game they used to take pictures of the code switcher off there club house wall and act like they never existed. Thats how well they took losing there players.

Jonathon Davies, Gareth Edwards and Gareth Davis (All ex Wales RU players) was talking on Welsh tv on Sunday evening and Gareth Davies asked them what is the difference between professional era RU and amaetur RU. Jonathon Davies replied they pay tax now and less brown paper bags.

Nonsense. We gave amateur players, almost exclusively Welsh, a chance to earn a living playing sport. They were not contracted to anyone and could not earn their living at sport playing RU or they would not have come in the first place.

To suggest amateur players deciding to go and do something which their sport actually forbade (earn money playing) is the same thing as what is going on here is what is ridiculous.

Well I think he must have been referring to the likes of Guscott rather than himself and others from the WRU. How many brown paper bags do you think the likes of Boston and others like him before the more modern era of Davies were getting? If they could have made a living at it they would have stayed put and RU has always had the money to pay it. They chose not to because they were just wrapped up in their own outdated amateur ethos.

was the prime mover in JT`s switch to RU.

JT apparently signed a contract with James Grant Sports Management in a move that saw his agent, Andy Clarke, become a consultant for the London-based firm.

And so RL is now just like football - Agents offering their clients to other clubs, even though they may be under contract, just so the Agent can earn more commission.

Clarke was instrumental in getting JT his 5 year contract with Wigan, and earning commission in the process, and now gets more commission by selling JT to Saracens and also earns another deal by becoming a consultant with the sports management agency.

Nice work if you can get it, Clarke, although I do not blame JT for wanting to significantly improve his earnings - after all, most of us would do it if we had the opportunity.

It is sad to see player's being poached from Rugby League but I really don't see what the fuss is about. Is what theses agents are doing Illegal? As far as I'm aware it Isn't but please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. It has happened the other way in the past. Albeit under different circumstance's as Union teams where amateur but the main reason behind the players moving is exactly the same in giving the player a better pay day, is it not?

I really don't want to see Joel leave. But it seems it's going to happen. Is it really the end of the world? Is Rugby League going to cease to exist because Kyle Eastmond and Joel Tomkins have switched over to the "Dark Side"? Rather than moan and try to think of ways to stop agents giving player's the opportunity to earn more money in union, Why not concentrate on solving the problems that League and the RFL have in the first place so that Rugby League can maybe one day be able to offer the same international glamour and money that union can.

Totally disagree it's exactly the same thing.

Are you honestly suggesting that the key difference is that they were "Amateur" in RU?

You are either grasping onto your argument, unwilling to back down or are extremely naive.

RU was never completely "amateur". It was all about the size of brown paper bags involved, even down to teams you would have never heard of. Those who moved to RL obviously decided that the bags were too small and they could earn more money in RL.

i.e. EXACTLY the same situation as those who move to RU today.

I was chatting to Steve Smith (ex England RU and co-founder of Cotton Traders), at a Wembley Challenge Final. I asked him why he'd never turned pro because he seemed to have all the attributes to make a success of League. His answer was simple: "I couldn't afford to".

Jonathan Davies's move to League was funded by Widnes's then main sponsor ICI, they viewed it as the cheapest national and international advertising they'd ever bought.

Quite apart from "boot money", there were other ways of remunerating Union players, often they worked for a club "patron" and received a handsome wage..

Thos who left The Valleys and "took the money" still had to find employment away from the rugby field, there was a RFL by-law that prevented full-time professionals

Didnt find a James Grant Management on our company software but found a James Grant Sports which has a director of Michael McGuire appointed on 01.01.2010.........

No I am saying going to play RL from RU was no different than someone going from an amateur RL side to play the game at the top level. I am also saying the RU players had no contracts to break and that they were not in any way contracted to their clubs - and they were not. This is so far removed from moving from one professional sports team (to which you are contracted) to another it is untrue. It is also no coincidence most of the players who went north came from Wales where there clearly wasn't enough brown paper bag money to allow them to earn a living at the sport.

I am sure just before RU went pro there was a lot of cash available under the table for players like Guscott in England but the games have been around a lot longer than that era and to suggest RU players have always been well paid or paid at all and none of them ever went north to simply earn a living from playing sport which was an option that was precluded form them back in RU is just simply untrue.

I don't blame the players for one minute. If a player is offered a 3x (or more) increase in salary then they are going to take it. The thing that annoys me is that Andy Clarke has been promoting league players to union for years. Andy was the reason that Chris Ashton moved to union.

Phil Clarke was a joint shareholder of the company that generated fees from Andy's activities (he is his brother afterall!!). Phil then appears on sky stating that the RFL have to do everything in their power to protect the sport and the talent that is developed by the clubs. B*****s Phil, your brother has been generating fees from doing the very thing that you are stating the RFL need to protect against.

At the end of the day money talks and the Clarke brothers (particularly Phil) should do the honourable thing and f**k right off.

Now that the firm has been acquired by James Grant my real concern is that the better UK based players will trot along to the kick and clap brigade.

The question is now how the RFL will respond.......

I won't hold my breath.

Rant over

1 rumor in the 70's was that the players for Wales got paid by adidas to wear their boots in games. During my time of playing union we were hearing stories of players getting paid backhanders to play. No such thing as ametur in union tbh. Difference was when it became a fully professional run game the organisation's became professional as well. RFL is amaeturish run by people in charge.

I'm not sure that Joel Tomkins will make it in rugby union. I don't think he is a back as he wasn'ty a great centre at Wigan. He certainly isn't a front row forward and the top class backrow forwards in RU are taller than Joel.
I think he will struggle at this alien game and he will return to rugby league in a couple of years as Smith of Leeds did. Not sure if Eastmond will make it either.
Our only hope is that all rugby league signing fail so the Union hierarchy will think twice before signing anyone else. I do think Sam would be outstanding on the dark side.

How do you suggest that the RFL should respond, given all relevant legislation on restraint of trade etc?

It is not up to the RFL to respond to any players being tempted away, that is totally within the remit of individual clubs. There have been suggestions of raising the cap - that would be fine if the majority of clubs were spending close to the cap. It would be even better if the clubs were providing enough income to cover paying their players AND investing in the future, without the need of any sugar-daddy benefactors.

Just remember, you haven't got a ground you can flog to Tesco anymore.

You don't know much about union do you? He'd easily be tall enough to be a back row forward, although I wouldn't expect him to plan on being a flanker or no8. He's a typical modern day union centre and has all the attributes to do so. His only negative point is that at centre his defensive footwork and positioning could occasionally be found out in league but this won't be exloited as much in union as far as I'm concerned.

I don't want him to go by any means, but I do think he's going to do quite well. I think Sam on the other hand, despite being the better league player, would struggle to adapt to union as there isn't any particular position that stands out in regards to his size and main qualities.