The current line up isn't working. I'd like to see something different.

Roberts
Marsh Joel Carmont Pat
Sam Deacon
Coley Tommy Prescott
Hoffman Hansen
Lockers
-------
McM Mossop Lima Tuson

So you'd drop Goulding for Marsh? Sorry, no. Goulding has proven himself on the wing at this level. He may not be scoring this season but he's been solid enough.

Marsh had a good game on Friday, but he's never a SL/Wigan centre, let alone a winger.

Goulding looked to have picked up an injury to me, seemed to be limping towards the end of the first half. Might miss the game anyway?

Not everyone is fit so I would go with this.... shake it up a little. Take a few risks.....

Roberts
Goulding
Joel
Carmont
Richards
Sam
Deacon
Coley
McIlorum
Lima
Hansen
Hoffman
Lockers

Farrell
Prescott
Tommy
Mossop

I think this is the best team we can put out at the moment assuming Deacon is ok etc.

Roberts at FB.... he needs confidence, once he has it then he will be very dangerous for us.

Joel at centre..... quality second half against Leeds, he could be a real weapon, the centre position seems to be developing down under and we should follow, big players with unique skills.... much like Idris, Inglis, Folau..... or back in the day with Gene Miles and Meninga.... the centre position is beginning to adapt again.... we should follow.... Joel could be a quality strike centre, much more effective than running at other forwards... he is going to be running at alot of young centres with his size.

Sam at 6.... he has been found out at FB... he is way too predictable and he now has much less options... he tore the leeds team appart when moved to 6.... he could still chime into the line at times because it can be effective but his kick return is not as good as Roberts and he is similar under the high ball (excluding Roberts nightmare at Hudds) I am glad sam had the experience at 1 because he will be a better player and he will learn alot from it but it is time to move him back to his best position....

Deacon 7.... will work better with Sam than Leuluai will IMO.... he will organise the team and Finch will have to earn his place in this team, he cannot be played with the showing he put in against Catalans, he showed some fantastic touches against Leeds, mainly the long pass to Tomkins but his kicking game has been shocking to Deacon gets the pick

McIlorum at hooker.... played awful against Catalans, I honestly can't believe he was some peoples MOM.... he was dreadful.... saying that it's the only bad game I have seen him have in a Wigan shirt... he has really come on and should carry on being our starting hooker due to his defence.... start the game solid.

Tommy at hooker off the bench.... he won the world cup with NZ playing hooker, he looked awesome when he moved there against Catalans, he is a great runner of the ball and could be devastating in that position.... he has great hands and great vision, he also has a good kicking game compared to most hookers despite his last tackle options from our own half... he is an impact player and super league teams will not know how to cope with him...

Lima starting prop.... he is NOT FEKA.... he is a hard working prop... we should start him he does not have any impact from the bench. Lets start him.
Prescott off the bench... I believe he will bring more impact like Mossop has been doing. Try it.

Just my opinion but I think I give some decent reasons even if the wording is not the best. It is 2am though.

I agree 100% with alll of that, lets see what madge does

Having any combinations at half back, full back, hooker will be irellevent until the pack start to dominate teams again. Feilden has been a big miss the pack is getting bullied at the moment

Correct.
The experiment of using Hansen at prop failed miserably on Friday, we desperately needed another prop on the bench, I would have risked Dom Crosby.

I am also in the minority and think Sam is still the best option at fullback.

True, but it was as much down to the pack not playing to their usual high standards, especially defensively. Hoffman, in particular, was dreadful, after being superb for all the previous games. We did miss Fielden, Lima and Farrell, but the guys out there would usually be more than capable.

Yes actually I would. Only a few years back people were saying the same about Goulding, he was a centre who wasn't up to it, he then went on loan to Salford, they played him as a winger, and the rest is history.
Goulding was scoring tries last season due to having a top centre as his partner, without that he's average at best.
He's weak under the high ball and not that quick.

Compare him to Marsh, Marsh is bigger faster stronger better under the high ball.

I don't like the mentality of 'well he's not done much wrong so lets stick with him' when in reality we could be stronger down his side.

We just lack bite and aggression, at times I think we're almost bullied by a 'harder pack'. I feel thats how wire have the beating of us. Against Hudds wire were under the cosh as their pack was as equally if not more aggressive.

We need more grunt, big hits and legal aggressive behaviour from our entire pack.

I don't think there is anything wrong with the team selections, it's just a matter of getting them to perform as a unit. They seem lethargic in both defence and attack, right across the team. Them first 20 minutes they need to be smashing into teams just like we did last year! They seem cautious as if there scared of getting injured. We need that ruthless mentality back and QUICK!

I think most of us are in agreement that things arent quite working at the mo. If you were Madge, what changes would you make?

I think there have been a lot of "distractions" so far this season from the World Club Challenge and the Gleeson saga to Hock's return. We've also had a lot of injuries/suspensions to key players which hasnt helped us to have a settled squad.

If I was Madge I'd look to moving Joel to centre permenantly. He's strong, fast, he can score tries and is also a good defender.

I'd also bring Amos back in at full back and move Sam back to stand off. Sam's a great attacking full back but his positional play and, at times, his defence is somewhat shaky. I think he has the potential and talent to be the best stand off the club has had since Edwards.

Amos looked good in attack against Hudds and I think he just needs a couple of games under his belt to settle himself and restore his confidence. How awesome would it be to have the Amos of last season back??

We need to restore some stability in the team. We dont have a "starting 13" this season and I'm not sure we've ever put the same team out twice for one reason or another. I know its difficult with injuries but I think making too many changes too often is too distracting for the players.

Finally, I'd have to drop Finch to the U20's. I'm not sure if he's still carrying an injury and if he is, then it would explain to a degree why he was actually shirking out of tackles on Friday night! I have never, in all my years of watching rugby league seen anything like it!! He looked like he didnt want to get involved and his contribution to the game was a bit of arm waving! Disgraceful! If he is injured, then he shouldnt be playing anyway! The sooner we get Deacs back the better. We've really missed his kicking and organisational skills.

To end on a positive note, it was great to see Pat back. His kicking game alone will ease some pressure on us.

Thoughts, everyone?

Me too Brian !!!

FB 19 Roberts
RW 25 Charnley
RC 12 Joel
LC 4 Carmont
LW 5 Richards
SO 1 Sam
SH 7 Leuluai
P 14 Prescott
H 9 McIlorum
P 10 Coley
SR 16 Hoffman
SR 22 Farrell
LF 13 O'Loughlin

S 11 Hansen
S 15 Lima
S 21 Mossop
S 23 Tuson

How did you work that one out?

I've been saying this for ages. I (wrongly) expected Lima to be the enforcer we need, but now when our four frontline props are all fit we have four workhorses, good workhorses but nothing more. We desperately need a Morley type player to provide some biff.

need I go over this again?

at full back Sam gets the ball at 2nd or 3rd reciever at pace so effectively he is playing stand off already. You put Sam at stand off permenantly you run the risk of giving him the ball stood still most of the time and unable to take on the line at pace which is what he does best.

Also Amos is struggling to get a start on the wing so how people expect to see him go well at full back is beyond me.

We scored nearly 30 points despite our complete inability to defend on Friday. Attack is not the issue our defence and pack is what we need to sort out as well as attitude.

Do you actually read what I wrote? The answer appears to be no.

It's quite easy really. Just look at the suggested team posts from fans over the past few weeks, and the majority want Sam at stand off.

I however still think he is better at fullback, but I am in the minority.

I to also like Sam at FB, however for him to be at most effective it means we have to play a certain style of Rugby. The Rugby we played last year with numerous dummy runners and two or three attacking lines running at the defensive line. The problem this year being, the side has been chopping and changing around so much that the players are unable to pull of last years moves because of unfamiliarity with those around them.

Certainly our problems in attack for me, boils down to having an unsettled side. If we can keep the same three quarter line and halfback combination for consecutive weeks, it'll go along way to solving our problems in attack.

Defensively the last few week's have been a blip IMO. We've already shown this year in numerous game that when fully focused we are the best defensive side in the comp. It's just about getting that consistency week in week out, and I've no doubt that'll come when we get a good few wins under our belt.

Too true !

Behind a beaten pack you will always lose. Hell, you don't have to have been watching the game for too many years to work that one out.

Both Wire and Catalans have big packs, and we got beat !

We need muscle in that front row, someone like Andy Platt or especially Kelvin Skerrett in the past. Props often work in pairs much better. Playing with a 'light pack', as we are doing at the moment, will crucify us in the long term.

So as statistically valid as your Brian Noble is the hardest working coach in the game - fact (even though you've no idea how hard other coaches work), i.e. not at all.

So basically you don't know if you're in a minority or not, but just like to pretend you are.

I am in the minority on this one, just look back through the posts on here.
[urlhttp://viewtopic.php?f=28&t=488029[/url

I think the solution is in the structure of the attack.

Here goes for my solution to the Sam as a 1 or 6 debate.

Don't play split halves. Have the plays running through the 7 then onto the 6 as a running second reciever. Here we can ultilise Sam's running game where he joins into the line as he does as a FB.
However, he will have more of a presences as he will always be situated somewhere between the edge players SR and the centres linking up. Similar to Edwards did in his day or Maguire does at Leeds.

With this we could also have a second attacking option outwide if the FB possibly Roberts linked up into the line.
With this set-up it is important to have a ball playing loose. So if needs must they can act as a 1st reciever on the other side to the 7 to offer more options in attack so the plays don't always run through the 7. I think we can achieve this at Wigan with Lockers, he can easily take control as he's proven before when in the halves.

Thoughts?

I can explain this in more detail, as I feel it is a good solution.

And yet using your flawed methodology you are in the majority on this thread, as I'd keep him there as well.

So like I said, you don't know but just like to tell everyone you are.