DESPRATELY... micky mac is doing ok but we need a quality hooker who can give us something different in attack, Riddell as been a big loss for us and i dont think Tommy L is the answer in that position last season both hookers complimented one another well, we don't have that this time

What can a hooker do with no quick PTB and with the team either off-side or flying up..... Cameron Smith would have looked average.

Mickey Mac is having a fine season but i'd have to agree we miss Riddell. I think McIlorum would work really well with a hooker who plays with guile and craft as he's a different type that plays with passion, aggression and fire.

When Richards is back i'd be tmepted to get Tomkins back in at 6, Roberts in at fullback(after a confidence building session on the wing), Finch at 7 and let Tommy Leuluai start at 9 with McIlorum being asked to provide a couple of high energy spells from the bench hurting people in defence and by getting out of dummy half running at the big forwards.

Well if Madge will stop playing Sam at 1 and let him and Finch be the half backs we have Tommy who does OK for NZ.

What we need is to be able to put out our first choice halfbacks for 5/6 games on the bounce. All this chopping and changing isn't helping anyone. I'm also a little worried because teams are starting to read what we're doing. It's either a short flat pass to a dummy runner or pass behind two dummy runners to Sam who joins the line to create an overlap. If the defence doesn't get sucked in (like Wire didn't) we don't have much luck...

I think McIlorum is doing a fine job. Would help if we could get Tommy playing there aswell, an coincidentally im starting to agree with others that Sam is looking better at 6 than 1. Roberts looked sharp when he came on today. At Leeds i'd go:

Roberts
Goulding
Marsh
Carmont
Charnley
Finch
Sam
Prekky
McIlorum
Coley
H
Hoff
Lockers

Tommy
Faz
Mossop
Lima

We seem to have no 'umph' coming from the bench at the moment, just 4 lads who come on and do a good job but nothing special, which is IMO what Leuluai could do. Him coming on to a tired defence after McIlorum has ruffeled some feathers would work well.

i am tearing my hair out at Madge.
we are 1 dimentional with micky playing 80..............we need a plan b........which is TOMMY.....new zealands hooker ??????????????????

I totally disagree with Richards at fullback. He offers nothing in the way of creativity from there. He's more of a traditional fullback than a modern one. Stick Amos there with Sam and Finch in the halves and get Tommy in at 9.

They were not offside. They simply played Wigan off the field with a superb defensive performance. They beat Wigan at their own game.

Ouch!

We dont need a hooker we need some defense practice on that left hand side better defense there would have made that a much closer game. Thank god its only coz pats injured and not coz we need more players.

Can Pat stop 2 players? The problem occured much further in field and we ended up with a winger facing a centre and winger on his own.

well said, a lot of people have questioned charnley for being the last man out there, when thats his job. It's not his fault the rest of the team didnt move their feet well enough to cope with the play, charnley got it in the neck, but his centre was 5/10 metres out of place for 2 of the tries iirc.

Just to clarify by that i meant pat will be there to boss his side around so one player isnt left alone like that.

I don't think we need a hooker. For me, now Finch is fit (close too anyway), we've enough around that area. Any number of players could play there and offer something different.

An example being if we played 6 Deacon, 7 Finch, 9 Leuluai, Tommy would play a more creative game whilst remaining dangerous and solid in defence, whereas we could then shift them about and stick Micky on there for Deacon, whack Finch in a 6 and Tommy back at 7. That would then allow McIllorum to play his own game, running at the big forwards and making us some metres.

We don't need a new hooker. Not in my opinion. We do miss Riddell, I'll admit that, but we just need to give Finch time to settle in and give it a few more games for Tommy and Micky to be effective in at 9.

They certainly were offside most of the time, but so were Wigan! All teams push it as far the ref will allow.

Whilst I agree that we definitely miss Riddell (and Let's be honest - What team wouldn't, on last year's showing), what we are *REALLY* missing is both of our first choice centre and winger on Charnley's side.

We are currently playing 2 kids on that wing. One OK centre and one talented but young winger.

What we should have there is a top quality centre in Gleeson and the league's current Man of Steel and top try scorer in Paddy.

Add to that the fact that our other centre had to get his wrist strapped up part way into the match, we had a half-back who has not only never played with this team, but was also in his first game back from a serious and long-term injury, plus just after we subbed Finchy to change the team round a little, we had Tommy pretty much knocking himself out (literally) to save a try.

Finally, above everything else, we were facing a Warrington team that simply worked harder for each other and got the rub of the green.

We had what? 3 or 4 tries ruled out last night (all but one of them correctly).
On another night, we get some/all those and the game might go our way.

It'll all work out in the end, and I'm still absolutely convinced that we saw the league's 2 top teams play last night.

I'll be quite surprised if it's not Wigan/Wire in 1st/2nd at the end of the season, having seen what the other teams have to offer.

I just think we need another 4-6 weeks before we start seeing the best of Wigan, with Pat back, Gleeson either back or replaced, Joel back (we could have done with him at centre last night), Finch with a bunch of games under his belt and a better team understanding of his play-style, Hock pulling his tripe out to get back in the team after his ban (i.e. pushing ALL of the other fornt/second rowers to work harder themselves).

To sum up - Relax. It was just one game, where inexperience in certain key areas was exploited by a well-drilled Warrington team.

I'll be amazed if we're seeing that sort of performance in 1-2 months time.

(Apologies for the long post, and thank you/well done if you made it this far)

Unless I'm very much mistaken, Charnley and Marsh aren't playing on the same wing anymore.

We need a scrum half. Micky Mac and Tommy, spelled correctly, are a match for anyone, for sure Clarke and Higham.

Tommy, good as he is, isn't the best scrum half we could wish for. The lad in the under 20's, Russell is an out and out number 7 and though he is young at 18 or 19, Myler is only 20. Until Finch gets match fitness I'd love to see him given a go.

We are missing the pig, tommy should go there now finch is fit and deacon next week, sam isnt the player he was last year so far maybe when pat comes back put him back to 6 and pat at FB.

We do need a hooker - anyone who disagrees should watch the relative performances of the two hookers alst night - Monaghan was far quicker at passing the ball/ had far more guile and creativity and looked much sharper and aware of options around him.

Thats the one for me. Roberts has only displayed his best form from full back and last season showed better attacking full back play than I have seen from anyone at Wigan. Leuluai has always played very well for New Zealand at hooker and offers a lot more than McIlorum. Tomkins is not a full back for me and needs to play 6 with Finch at 7. With a fully fit team this is how we need to go.

we need a centre!!

We need to sort out the silly gleeson stuff firstly, either sack him and bring in a solid centre for his money or sort him out and get him playing.

But we really need a centre its a sad reflection when our quickest and most dynamic centre is one that is in his mid thirties and has a dodgey knee, not that i don't think George isn't good enough he is, but we really need solid centres on both sides, this always makes a winger have an easier job. A centre who will protect his winger with kicks and can tackle is key at the minute. We know with a slightly shorter winger you need a protective centre and at the minute our part time centres just don't protect the wingers enough with kicks.

If only James roby had a pie eating twin!!!!

your in wigan just stand on any corner waving a fiver and youll have one in minutes.