think yesterday was the clearest sign so far that we need to get this guy back in the pack. he is a top 2nd row, speed, skills and very aggressive (we are going to need this with no hoff/coley next year) but he hasnt got the positional/defensive ability to play in the centre. dont get me wrong i think joel is one of our best players but i just dont think its worked out for all concerned.

would it be worth pushing charnley in one, he is supposed to naturally be a centre, and giving king/a fit amos a go?

frig me...we lose a game and suddemly everyones playing out of position.

have you forgotten Joels contribution at wembley already..playing CENTRE

we need a class 2nd rower to replace hoff, not a centre

ive been saying this all season, nothing to do with 1 game.

his wembley try was a breakway effort that had nothing to do with him as a centre, it merely highlights the ability i originally mentioned. joels problem when playing outwide is his defence and his decision making under pressure.

whats the point in signing a second row? we have probably the best british second row playing out of position!!!

Bang on!!

So so wrong.

He is wasted in the centre as you say, he needs to be in the pack and causing trouble like he can with ball in hand, he's a very agile second row and that will cause most teams problems.

Aye, I've hoped against hope that he'd improve out at centre, but he simply hasn't. He doesn't have the hands to play the position.

A class second rower not a centre. Everyone is getting caught up saying this was a master stroke by Madge having him fill in at centre. Even going as far to comparing him to Greg Inglis. The truth is we have missed Gleeson and most of the defensive errors have been commited on that flank between Joel and Josh Charnley.Teams have pinpointed that flank all season as a weakness.

Nutshell mate. He did a job at centre, never going to be a worldbeater there, and if england have any sense (what am i saying its macbanana) they will get him in the squad as a second rower.

Wasted at centre...

Thanks for that Biff. I just hope McNamara does not get caught up with slotting him into the centre position. A mistake countless international coaches have made in the past is playing class players out of position. Am not sure if he would start in the 2nd row now though after playing centre all season.

Been saying for weeks he's a second row end of.

Try's like the one at Wembley would still be scored from that position in fact he made more breaks from that position. He likes to roam and find space and he can't do that at centre. He simply hasn't got the footwork for the role.

He's staying at centre though IMO so I best get over it.

Lets be honest. Joel is only in the because Gleason shafted us. I dont think him move was the part of some grand plan, more that desperate times call for desperate measures.

He has done ok in the grand scheme of things but it is fair to say he is a much better back rower than a . That is not to say he could not become a decent back given time.

I think he deserves a lot of credit for giving it a crack and it is a testament to his character that he has done it with enthusiasm and an open mind, but the time is right to get him back where he belongs.

Question is, who replaces him?

Play josh in the centre, give ryan king a go on the wing

Absolutely spot on, Joel seems to have just got on with the job, despite centre not being his natural position and full credit to him, but Wigan do need to put him back in the second row if we can get a decent centre.

I'd love this to happen.

Never seen Ryan King play but seems some people have high hopes for him. How good is he in relation to Charnley and Goulding.

Some people suggest playing Charnley at centre but how much patience will fans have with him? It's quite likely that if Charnley was given the centre position he would struggle quite a lot defensively, basically because that's what happens to most young centres. Centre isn't his natural position, he's been a winger pretty much all of his career so he'll still have to learn the role just like Joel Tomkins has been doing. Sticking Charnley at centre and King on the wing just gives an inexperienced partnership and lots of adjusting to do.

I do think we miss Joel from the pack though. Hansen may have improved his attacking play by upping his work rate, but he is still lacking in that department and he's not a patch on Joel. All he does is cut back inside pretty much every single time he gets the ball and it starves the centre and winger of possession down that side.

Joel is being criticised for being weak defensively by the same people that are saying Josh should be givena go at centre

You're on your own in that thinking pal!

Seen him yesterday for only the 2nd time but he looked a real talent. He was my mom after scoring a try and setting one up with a stunning break to turn the game in our favour. He also made about 2 or 3 breaks in the 2nd half.

In terms of how he looks/plays he's a stocky-ish lad and isnt the tallest. He's taller then Ainscough and looked to have good power. He's faster then Goulding and I'd guess similar to Charnley. He looked a confident lad willing to back himself and I think he'd thrive playing first team.

Matty Russell was official mom and looked another gem. He is rapid and has sensational footwork. He is brave as well and I loved how he ran in to space full tilt and shirked nothing. He looked very special and given time could give us a great option at fullback allowing Sam to develop back at 6. I love Sam at fullback and unless somebody could offer that same attacking threat I wouldn't want to move him but I truly believe this lad could.

Exciting times.

lets wait and see.....i recall IL saying an off season training up Joel would turn him into the next Keith Senior...that'll do for me

He's been "training" all season with no change.He's just as raw as a centre now as he was when he first started,and I don't see it changing with an off season I'm afraid.He's done the job he was asked to do, but we need a specialist centre for next season

The big question is who?

Thanks lets hope he gets his chance as this season MM has not given any new player a real chance compared to what happend last year.

Didn't Josh play centre when on loan at HKR last season, and do very well?