Firstly.. Hi!

Secondly, this isn't a troll, as hopefully you'll be able to tell!!

Great game on Friday. Would've snapped your hand off for a draw prior to kick off so, obvious disappointment aside, I'm forcing myself to be happy we got a point.



I just wanted to know what Wigan fans thought of Sam Tomkins.

There's no question at all the kid is supremely talented. Exceptional player of the game, and to say he's relatively young, I've no doubt he'll be the best in the game (already one of the best in UK), and will go down as an all time great.

But surely you've got to question his attitude? He is constantly involved in absolutely everything that he shouldn't be, constantly chirping at the ref, he's running in to get involved in fights, the arm trap thing (which he didn't do on Friday but the point stands).

The reason I think it annoys me so much (can't speak for others) is because he's so talented. If he was a just a gobby little idiot then it probably wouldn't bother me, but it's frustrating as a fan of the game in general (and not just Leeds) that somebody who has the potential to be the greatest ever, has this ugly side to his game.

I'm sure this will get loads of "He's ace, pi[iss[/i off back to your own board!" type responses, but I thought one or two Wiganers might have a few thoughts on it too? There must be one or two frustrated Wigan fans that watch and cringe when he's constantly involved? Should the coach (or those around him) be trying to stamp it out, or is it this attitude that makes him play as well as he does?

When opposotions fans get on his back (e.g. chanting that he's a w@nker!) IMO it brings out his competitive nature and he ups his game. So from that point of view it is an important element to his game.

For example, if he had that last minute kick at the DW with the crowd behind him I honestly think he would have missed it.

Was a pretty easy kick to be fair!! TONS of pressure, no doubt! But in terms of "difficulty of kick, excluding the pressure" it was pretty bread & butter stuff.

It's just the niggling that annoys me. Constantly involved. With the Clarkson tackle, he was nowhere near, and yet still got involved. Same against Wire last week too, just seems to be constantly looking for trouble.

I see what you're saying though, he uses the "abuse" (which for what it's worth I think is mostly pantomime villain stuff!) to channel his focus to "prove the abusers wrong". Fair point!

Not an easy kick when your not the first choice kicker though. As for the niggles all the great "halfbacks" i've either heard of or been lucky enough to see play have always had this trait. Shaun Edwards, Andy Gregory, Tommy Martyn, Alex Murphy, Bobby Goulding, Ellery Hanley, Paul Bishop, Lee Briers to name but a few. All the aforementioned used to wind the opposition fans and players alike with their antics, its all part and parcel of being a halfback you need a certain amount of arrogance and cockiness i guess, even though it does make you a target. I used to be a halfback so know what its like

You can't deny Tomkins is a class act though.

Not so easy for a 4th/5th choice goal kicker IMO!

I'm sure he'd be the first to admit he's not the greatest goal kicker and he's missed a few easier and similar to the one on friday!

I actually thought he got on with his rugby on Friday against you lot, it seemed in my opinion Mcshane, Senior and Cross were trying to get under his skin big time, using some dirty tatics. Sam's one of them players that's cocky so opposing fans love to hate him. There's been players like him a plenty in the past, usually half backs or hookers. It's just RL if you take away his attitude you take away the player he is naturally. Sometimes I don't like the things he does but I obviously love the skill factor and his attitude is sometimes how us Wigan fans feel anyway, he just displays it on the pitch. Hence all the stick you lot gave him last year at are place in the play-offs then he tore you apart and scored a sensational try, throwing the ball in the crowd, basically saying how's that?

Or some of your fans gobbing off at headingley at the play-off semi final, absuing the players as they walked back, "booo you cheats" "come on saints" "you wont win it 3 times". That day we hammered you 24-6 and didn't deserve the bitter abuse, Sam replied "we're in the final love" fair play to him, I would of said the same. You can see the video on a popular video sharing site

What??????????? Leeds are the worst side in the league for "constantly chirping at the ref".

Im glad he is a dirty little bas**rd. People dont complain when other players try and take his head off which is almost every game so stuff it. All this crap about him deserving it is ludicrous. Maybe if the authorities had protected him when players tried decapitating him earlier in his career things would be different.

Im glad Joel Tomkins is a shi*house too, he has turned a few games for us by kicking it off imo. I dont want any players in our team who take a step back. None of our players have done any worse than what other teams players have done before but because we are Wigan its a scandal!

What do I think of Sam Tomkins? That's an easy question.

He's the best player in SL.

Where do you think all those Leeds players came from? Did they just sprout from the ground? When half a dozen Leeds players start surrounding the tacklers it's inevitable that Wigan players would gather round too. And as for 'getting involved', nothing actually happened when the players came together except for Ablett giving Lima a little slap.

I can't think of much to complain about with Tomkins attitude during that game. He concentrated on the game even when some Leeds players thought it was best to wind him up. When Goulding won a penalty, McShane decided he wanted to get stuck in to Sam, but no one was taking that bait. Then there's Ben Cross who comes wading in for no reason in the hope of causing a bit of trouble.

Tomkins comes off quite well in comparison to some of the Leeds players.

He's a niggly little f*cker like all great halfbacks, right? I absolutely love how he gets hated by every other team. Sam uses his brain very well in Rugby League, knows how to get every little advantage, milking penalties. So what? You only complain when it goes against you. I don't see it as an 'ugly' part of the game

Does he chirp at the ref? Doesn't really seem like he chirps that much imo, there are far far worse that do that in this league.

Sam Tomkins, what a w@nker, what a w@nker

What really irritates the opposition fans about Sam is that they expect their big tough forwards to flatten him, only to find they aren't actually tough enough.

Try to imagine him in a Leeds shirt - what would you think of him in those circumstances ?

BTW can imagine how gutted you felt on Friday, there was a game at the DW a couple of years back when Rob Burrow had a penalty kick from just over the half way line at exactly the same stage of the match. Fortunately for us he missed but it would have been the pits if he had nailed it

Spot on

And the fact that roughing him up only brings him more into the game means soon the penny will drop and teams will just leave him be..i hope not i love watching him taking the p"ss out of them.

ITS CALLED STICKING UP FOR HIM SELF ,LAST SEASON HE GOT HAMMERD BY THE LIKE OF PEOPLE LIKE ABLET ,THIS SEASON HE S GREW SOME BALLS AND HE S GONNA FIGHT BACK WHATS WRONG WITH THAT ??????????? HOW CAN YOU COME ON HERE WHEN YOU VE GOT A TEAM FULL OF @RSE HOLES ABLET.BAILEY.CROSS. AND YES I KNOW I VE GOT CAPS LOCK ON

Thats one thing he doesnt do....milk penalties, gets involved in fights oh YES but chirping at refs ive not seen....we leave that to Sinfield, Briers and the greatest of the chirpers Iestyn Harris when playing for Leeds...

It seems to be a trait of certain dull-witted forwards.

Kevin Ward - who I actually rated (especially compared to Ben Cross, who is a complete joke), regularly took it on himself to try to sort out Shaun Edwards. Eventually Edwards got sick of it and squared up to him in a boxing stance. Wardy was dumbfounded. For all their size difference, the kid just wasn't scared of him - and at last Wardy got the message.

Seriously, constant chirping at the ref? Do you make the same thread on every other board about players who are far worse?

Arm trapping? Don't put you're hand in, it won't get stuck, it's that simple.

Running in to fights? Once he's ran in and hit someone (and rightly was banned for it). Simply running in, like on Friday is hardly a crime, if it is, why aren't you bemoaning at all 26 players, all of which ran in to that one.

The finest player I've ever seen was also possibly the finest penalty-milker. Ellery Hanley.

On the other hand, Hanley was never so ill-tempered as Sam sometimes gets, he just got on with it. Took out his frustration with ball in hand.

As previous posters have said, most half-backs are nigglers and I don't have a problem with it at all, but I do think Sam needs to cool it a bit to be honest.

I don't have a problem with Sam's attitude at all, as others have said, I think it's an important part of his game. The only thing that does annoy me at times is when he tries to milk a penalty when we are starting an attack and by doing so sometimes prevents the quick play the ball and the move loses some momentum. All things considered I wouldn't change him though!

Thanks for the genuine response! I was expecting the others!

In a Leeds shirt, he would annoy the hell out of me. As Bailey does with his fight starting (which tbf has calmed down), as Ablett & JJB do with their back chat, as McGuire does with his football style diving skills, as Senior does with his off-field tactics. Sure, I'd defend them in public (that's a fans prerogative though right?!) but hand on heart, it would irritate me.



Again, thanks for the genuine response. It seems if you support another club you're not allowed to take part in a discussion without it seeming like you're bitter & just having a go. Suppose I'd be exactly the same on our board so it's to be expected really.

Agreed, Hanley was similar, but he seemed less "angry at the world" than Sam seems. Sam strikes me as though he got a lot of "you're too little to play RL" when he was a kid, and is still pretty angry about it.

I suppose, it could be put down to a lack of self-confidence, rather than him being over-confident. His game is more than good enough to do the talking for him, but for whatever reason, he feels the need to let his mouth do it as well. As many have (expectedly) said, he really is a cracking player though. Outstanding.

Many of us have watched him a lot more than you have.... Yes he is a niggly ar$e but he was targeted and battered last season in just about every game. But we get a typical british response, critisize the talent.Surely you have not convieniently forgotten the Ablett assault. For me Sinfields constant whinging to the ref is a far worse example to set.

Mate... I'm not here for an argument. Read my posts, not only do I say he's awesome, I also highlight & criticise Leeds players faults. I was here to have a discussion which a couple of your posters are happy to have so if you don't like it just don't get involved and you won't have to get all angry and things.

No drama.

Sam gets far more really rough stuff (and actual dangerous hits around his face) than his fair share - and than most other Sl players have to put up with.

Burrows often takes a few round the face - but then I think that's more to do with his size catching out the larger forwards rather than people targetting him - I think opposition players really do target him with OTT attention.

All credit to him - he keeps getting up and playing hard. If all that opposition fans can moan about him is that he's niggly, milks the occasional penalty (and who has a player in their team that doesn't?) and he looks like ratboy then I don't give a sh*t.

One of the most talented RL players coming through at the moment - the fact he's not a saint doesn't bother me one bit - if he was a headhunter and had sent a number of players to hospital with their teeth missing and their jaws fractured then that would be a different matter.

Not angry in the slightest..... But its just that he does get some big hits off much bigger guys and gets up.... And if you look at the incident where he was banned for punching, he was not even the first one there! And i did say he was a niggly .