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| No shock to anyone.
Good luck to the lad in his NRL career. Disappointing to lose him so young but was always on the cards.
Says he gave us enough notice to secure a replacement wonder if that’s Thompson or someone coming in.
Time will tell I guess.
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| Hard not to be gutted.
So annoying that we spend so much time developing these players and finally when they grow into big strong SL talents they go.
Played 100 odd games for us and maybe the first 60 of them he was light weight and didn’t do much going forward (although still a good player).
Now his game is finally gone to the next level, he’s put on a lot of size and he’s now off.
Frustrating as losing players to the NRL is what’s stopped us from winning consistent GF like Saints and Leeds. Seems to happen a lot more to us that them.
Although this is where we are on the pecking order,,,, similar to how Salford fans would have left when Dupree left so I understand.
Now we have Danson and money doesn’t seem to be too much of an issue I’d rather us have kept him until the end of his contract.
But on Morgan himself, good luck to him! He’ll be great over there and it’ll be a cracking life experience.
He had a brilliant season and was unbelievable at the end of the year really wanted to go out on a high.
Such a shame as he had Wigan captain written all over him.
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| Good luck to the lad. He’s been superb for us and has gone out the right way. It’s frustrating to lose another to the NRL but we’ll survive. Longer term you’d like to think we can try and stem these exits but it’s not easy given the state of the game here.
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| Quote ="NickyKiss"Good luck to the lad. He’s been superb for us and has gone out the right way. It’s frustrating to lose another to the NRL but we’ll survive. Longer term you’d like to think we can try and stem these exits but it’s not easy given the state of the game here.'"
When I think of preparing for Castleford away on a Thursday night instead of playing the Broncos at Suncorp…..
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| Quote ="NSW"When I think of preparing for Castleford away on a Thursday night instead of playing the Broncos at Suncorp…..'"
Yeah, it sort of sums up the challenges you face. It does feel like other clubs don’t get hit as hard but we’ll see if that continues. The only way a lad like Welsby doesn’t end up there is if he is a total home bird and doesn’t like the thought of living away from home. The same goes for Havard, Dodd etc and in time lads like Delaney and Nsemba. We bicker with Saints fans on here but the two clubs are the benchmark and Aussie clubs will have eyes on players from those two clubs, more so than any other club.
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| Quote ="NSW"When I think of preparing for Castleford away on a Thursday night instead of playing the Broncos at Suncorp…..'"
Another thing not to underestimate when players seek opportunities down under (aside from rugby reasons) is the absolute $h17 show that this country is at the minute, and likely will be for the next decade. I know one thing for certain, if one of my kids was considering a move in their relevant profession to Australia and the opportunity presented itself, I'd be strongly encouraging them to take it.
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| He's been excellent this season and I think he'll thrive in the role he's played at Wigan, but whether they can develop any more out of his game remains to be seen. He's pretty limited in the carry but you can stick him through the middle and know you're going to get a massive defensive shift out of him, whether that's enough to succeed over there though I'm not sure. Good luck to him.
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| He will be sorely missed. He has progressed really well since Peet and his team took over in 202.
For me he was the best LF in SL by a country mile. A couple of years ago Knowles was probably the best “13” in the competition but he’s a good but a very one dimensional player and I’d take Smithies over him every day of the week.
His passing game has for me become a significant part of his role within the club and unless we find a suitable replacement it may mean a potential style of play next season. Maybe O’Neil is given the 13 shirt if the Farrell prove to be just rumours.
Personally i wouldn’t have Thompson anywhere near the 13 role as that would just be a third prop and for me a lazy option.
For me Smithies can leave with his head held high and I wish him every success in the nrl. I think that a few opposition fans will be in for a surprise when Smithies becomes the next Brit to be a success in the nrl competition.
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| Quote ="NSW"
Frustrating as losing players to the NRL is what’s stopped us from winning consistent GF like Saints and Leeds. Seems to happen a lot more to us that them.
'"
Annoying isn't it. I think we can put Leeds out of that because they haven't really developed any top class players in a generation, and you could argue the last ones (i.e. Hardaker and Watkins) did get their chance in the NRL.
Saints are more puzzling though. I think there's an element of Wigan being better at developing players who are 'NRL ready' at an earlier stage of their career. As good as this latest Saints team have been, most of their home grown stars' top form has come slightly later than Bateman, Williams, Smithies etc.
Thinking of their players who you think were of the right level, Lomax, Makinson & probably even Walmsley probably weren't as attractive when they were 23/24 compared to some of ours. Thompson was, but then he got his chance. Lees might've been, but then had his bad injury. Percival's injury record probably counted against him too.
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| Quote ="NickyKiss"Good luck to the lad. He’s been superb for us and has gone out the right way. It’s frustrating to lose another to the NRL but we’ll survive. Longer term you’d like to think we can try and stem these exits but it’s not easy given the state of the game here.'"
You can't push these kids to be the best they can be and then be surprised when they see a better opportunity for themselves. Going to happen more and more given the finance available over there, and as you've already alluded to it will be Wigan and Saints worst hit by it as they do the most work to develop them.
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| Quote ="Cherry_&_White"Annoying isn't it. I think we can put Leeds out of that because they haven't really developed any top class players in a generation, and you could argue the last ones (i.e. Hardaker and Watkins) did get their chance in the NRL.
Saints are more puzzling though. I think there's an element of Wigan being better at developing players who are 'NRL ready' at an earlier stage of their career. As good as this latest Saints team have been, most of their home grown stars' top form has come slightly later than Bateman, Williams, Smithies etc.
Thinking of their players who you think were of the right level, Lomax, Makinson & probably even Walmsley probably weren't as attractive when they were 23/24 compared to some of ours. Thompson was, but then he got his chance. Lees might've been, but then had his bad injury. Percival's injury record probably counted against him too.'"
Lomax and Makinson were definitely good enough at the age Smithies is now although you can equally see why they might not have been wanted, Makinson was pretty slight back then and Lomax had been through some injury problems. Joe Burgess was much bigger lad at a similar age (maybe younger) and you'd think he would have been more built for the increased physicality over there.
I do think Saints will see a lot more interest in this current and future generation of young players. Welsby, Dodd, Delaney all tremendous prospects (feels weird calling Welsby a prospect given all he's achieved) and by all accounts a very good set of youngsters waiting in the wings to be brought in over the next couple of years.
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| How can he leave? I thought the woman off the other site has asked him 50 times and told him he's not allowed to leave.
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| Quote ="SFW"Lomax and Makinson were definitely good enough at the age Smithies is now although you can equally see why they might not have been wanted, Makinson was pretty slight back then and Lomax had been through some injury problems. Joe Burgess was much bigger lad at a similar age (maybe younger) and you'd think he would have been more built for the increased physicality over there.
I do think Saints will see a lot more interest in this current and future generation of young players. Welsby, Dodd, Delaney all tremendous prospects (feels weird calling Welsby a prospect given all he's achieved) and by all accounts a very good set of youngsters waiting in the wings to be brought in over the next couple of years.'"
To be fair I think it's as much about perception as it is ability. Take Lomax, there's no doubt that he's been a brilliant player, but I'd say that's only become obvious when he was well into his career. In retrospect there were plenty of decent players at saints under Cunningham (when Lomax was in his min twenties) but you'd have been hard pressed to find anyone at the time saying that NRL clubs would be waiting in the wings.
Agree about Welsby and Delaney. Massive season for Dodd coming up.
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| Good luck to Morgan, we move on. The most frustrating part to me is seeing players go to the NRL when they are still under contract.
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| I wish him all the luck in the world over there - he's turned into a great player and it'll be a massive loss for Wigan.
I do struggle however to understand players being allowed to leave mid-contract, particularly if the financial issues perhaps aren't as significant as they were with Danson coming in. Doesn't it send a bad message to any other players who have NRL ambitions? What is wrong with asking players to fulfil the commitment they've made?
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| Quote ="MadDogg"I wish him all the luck in the world over there - he's turned into a great player and it'll be a massive loss for Wigan.
I do struggle however to understand players being allowed to leave mid-contract, particularly if the financial issues perhaps aren't as significant as they were with Danson coming in. Doesn't it send a bad message to any other players who have NRL ambitions? What is wrong with asking players to fulfil the commitment they've made?'"
That's a two way street though - if you develop a rep of holding players to contracts in the face of NRL interest don't be surprised when talented young players opt to sign short-term deals and you stop receiving fees.
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| Quote ="MadDogg"I wish him all the luck in the world over there - he's turned into a great player and it'll be a massive loss for Wigan.
I do struggle however to understand players being allowed to leave mid-contract, particularly if the financial issues perhaps aren't as significant as they were with Danson coming in. Doesn't it send a bad message to any other players who have NRL ambitions? What is wrong with asking players to fulfil the commitment they've made?'"
I sympathise with this viewpoint to a degree, but the Danson factor shouldn't really be relevant. As you say, Morgan was already under contract. If Wigan had 'upped it' mid-term just because he was asking to leave, that would have been setting an ugly precedent.
We could of course have offered him a much better contract when this current one is complete, and I'd be amazed if we didn't at least consider that. But I think it's more than just money. Whether we like it or loathe it, the NRL is now seen as RL's big league while we are just minnows.
Unless, as someone else pointed out, a player is a real home-body, it's now become a right of passage for them to try their hand in Aus. It's almost as though they're never fulfilling their potential if they don't.
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| Everyone has a price. For me, I'd have Smithies as a marquee in a heartbeat and certainly over someone like Thompson. We'd have just had to get to a number that Morgan couldn't turn down.
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| Quote ="sergeant pepper"Everyone has a price. For me, I'd have Smithies as a marquee in a heartbeat and certainly over someone like Thompson. We'd have just had to get to a number that Morgan couldn't turn down.'"
But maybe the factor wasn't numerical, maybe it was about testing himself and life experience, money talks but when you already have it and you have achieved just about everything you can in your domestic sport, the chance to try and achieve more elsewhere can and will be a big draw.
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| Well firstly I think we have respect Smithies for his efforts this year. Along with KPP, he has not dipped at all despite knowing he was leaving and if anything both their form just got better and better. I think both will do well in the NRL and will have a great career over there.
The bitter blow and I can only echo the comments from all on here is that we continually lose these lads. It is what has in my eyes held us back from sustained success like Leeds and St.Helens when they've had dominant spells - both clubs managed to retain that core group of players.
And yet I find it hard to be critical of the club for their approach with respect to having an open and honest culture with the players about their ambitions so they can recruit a replacement, secure a significant transfer fee etc and respect the wishes of the player, which will be the reason why KPP and Smithies continued to give their all and more for us and we ended up with a Grand Final.
The bigger issue is wider for the game. For young, unmarried, ambitious and talented RL players Super League is a stepping stone and the premier competition (and better lifestyle) is in the NRL. I wish we could keep them - I don't have the answer how we can do it.
We have made some great signings for next year, but talk of any "dynasty" will depend on us securing Harry Smith to a long term deal and trying to keep either French or Field (preferably both of course) for the next 2-3 years. We have Smith, French and Field all out of contract in 2024 (albeit with options for 1 and 2 years with French and Field - no idea in whose favour).
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| Quote ="sergeant pepper"Everyone has a price. For me, I'd have Smithies as a marquee in a heartbeat and certainly over someone like Thompson. We'd have just had to get to a number that Morgan couldn't turn down.'"
Agree with that. Smithies was a known quantity to us, and one that looked likely to continue improving.
Thompson is still a signing that i worry about, i can't shake the feeling of it being a Burgess all over again. One bitten twice shy you could say, he has missed a lot of time since his move over there.
We have had our trick, still hoping there is time for a treat!
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| Quote ="cadoo"Well firstly I think we have respect Smithies for his efforts this year. Along with KPP, he has not dipped at all despite knowing he was leaving and if anything both their form just got better and better. I think both will do well in the NRL and will have a great career over there.
The bitter blow and I can only echo the comments from all on here is that we continually lose these lads. It is what has in my eyes held us back from sustained success like Leeds and St.Helens when they've had dominant spells - both clubs managed to retain that core group of players.
And yet I find it hard to be critical of the club for their approach with respect to having an open and honest culture with the players about their ambitions so they can recruit a replacement, secure a significant transfer fee etc and respect the wishes of the player, which will be the reason why KPP and Smithies continued to give their all and more for us and we ended up with a Grand Final.
The bigger issue is wider for the game. For young, unmarried, ambitious and talented RL players Super League is a stepping stone and the premier competition (and better lifestyle) is in the NRL. I wish we could keep them - I don't have the answer how we can do it.
We have made some great signings for next year, but talk of any "dynasty" will depend on us securing Harry Smith to a long term deal and trying to keep either French or Field (preferably both of course) for the next 2-3 years. We have Smith, French and Field all out of contract in 2024 (albeit with options for 1 and 2 years with French and Field - no idea in whose favour).'"
Tying players down to long term contracts means nothing if we keep letting them go mid contract, so we can forget any talk of a dynasty.
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| Quote ="hatty"Tying players down to long term contracts means nothing if we keep letting them go mid contract, so we can forget any talk of a dynasty.'"
I know what you mean, but being mid-contract does at least mean paying a fair wedge as a transfer fee. I know that doesn't mean a huge amount to us with Danson and the salary cap, but it does act as a deterrent to the NRL team unless they really want the player.
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| Quote ="Cherry_&_White"I know what you mean, but being mid-contract does at least mean paying a fair wedge as a transfer fee. I know that doesn't mean a huge amount to us with Danson and the salary cap, but it does act as a deterrent to the NRL team unless they really want the player.'"
What is a fair wedge though? Danson is not in charge yet.
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| Quote ="Zig"Good luck to Morgan, we move on. The most frustrating part to me is seeing players go to the NRL when they are still under contract.'"
I take it that there was some form of compensation paid to us by either the club or the player to allow him to leave mid-contract?
Failing that, I take it we have a first option on when he returns to the UK and one that will be a little more watertight than the one GW managed to get out of.
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