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| Liam Moore is the man in middle.
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| Same old moan but I just can’t see why the sport keeps putting itself in the position of having a Wiganer refereeing Wigan. It leaves him open to claims of bias or counter claims of him trying not to be biased. Let’s hope we don’t notice him anyway and there is no controversy.
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| I agree, but OTOH he did OK in the semi-final. But certainly, it's not a good look.
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| People moan about the ref being from a certain area. You know what you need to do then, apply to be a ref and change it then. As far as I am aware being picked for the final is a reward for having a good season. If we win on Saturday it’ll be down to the ref
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| Quote ="NickyKiss"Same old moan but I just can’t see why the sport keeps putting itself in the position of having a Wiganer refereeing Wigan. It leaves him open to claims of bias or counter claims of him trying not to be biased. Let’s hope we don’t notice him anyway and there is no controversy.'"
Spot on. Only in RL could this happen. I actually think Moore has now gone too much the other way and Wigan seem to get a lot more decisions.
However given that Gausch said after the 21 GF that he wanted Australian refs and not English ones, the fact that the ref is from the same town as their opponents is quite laughable. You couldn’t make it up.
Conversely this could go against Wigan due to his comments. They just didn’t need to be in this position.
At one point Ganson was seen as the best ref but wasn’t allowed to referee Saints games. Not sure why things have changed. You’ve seen the furore it’s caused in football when Manchester based refs such as Anthony Taylor has refereed Utd games.
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| I personally think he’s got it because he’s been the best ref again this year, which is also why this will be his 3rd grand final in a row.
Ultimately the ref shouldn’t decide the game. Wigan have a job to do. It’s upto the team to get the job done.
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| Quote ="Stu M"Spot on. Only in RL could this happen. I actually think Moore has now gone too much the other way and Wigan seem to get a lot more decisions.
However given that Gausch said after the 21 GF that he wanted Australian refs and not English ones, the fact that the ref is from the same town as their opponents is quite laughable. You couldn’t make it up.
Conversely this could go against Wigan due to his comments. They just didn’t need to be in this position.
At one point Ganson was seen as the best ref but wasn’t allowed to referee Saints games. Not sure why things have changed. You’ve seen the furore it’s caused in football when Manchester based refs such as Anthony Taylor has refereed Utd games.'"
We didn’t on Saturday when he missed an obvious offside. That error allowed HKR back into the match, albeit not for long.
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| Quote ="Stu M"Spot on. Only in RL could this happen. I actually think Moore has now gone too much the other way and Wigan seem to get a lot more decisions.
However given that Gausch said after the 21 GF that he wanted Australian refs and not English ones, the fact that the ref is from the same town as their opponents is quite laughable. You couldn’t make it up.
Conversely this could go against Wigan due to his comments. They just didn’t need to be in this position.
At one point Ganson was seen as the best ref but wasn’t allowed to referee Saints games. Not sure why things have changed. You’ve seen the furore it’s caused in football when Manchester based refs such as Anthony Taylor has refereed Utd games.'"
It changed for Ganson as Saints kept making the final which ruled him (the best ref at the time) out of contention. They changed it and he reffed Saints in a final (which they lost).
You either accept they're impartial or you don't. If he's the best ref he should ref the final. Even if you do think they're biased, you could easily end up next season making the accusation that he's trying to ensure Wigan didn't make the final so that he could ref it.
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| Quote ="Grimmy"It changed for Ganson as Saints kept making the final which ruled him (the best ref at the time) out of contention. They changed it and he reffed Saints in a final (which they lost).
You either accept they're impartial or you don't. If he's the best ref he should ref the final. Even if you do think they're biased, you could easily end up next season making the accusation that he's trying to ensure Wigan didn't make the final so that he could ref it.'"
I agree he is the best ref and by a distance. We also don't doubt players integrities when they play against teams they supported as a lad so why should we doubt refs. I get that 100%
However as I said, given the comments from Gausch after the 2021 GF then there could be a lot of controversy if there are any controversial decisions.
Lets hope no-one notices the ref and he has little influence on the result.
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| And a little off topic but couldn't find a relevant thread...
Lees wins his appeal, downgraded to a Grade A and fine only.
Williams appeal was deemed as frivolous and they've increased his ban from 1 to 2 games. The England captain, just before a Test Series. You couldn't make it up. Only in Rugby League.
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| Quote ="Stu M"And a little off topic but couldn't find a relevant thread...
Lees wins his appeal, downgraded to a Grade A and fine only.
Williams appeal was deemed as frivolous and they've increased his ban from 1 to 2 games. The England captain, just before a Test Series. You couldn't make it up. Only in Rugby League.'"
You are right before a test series the Captain of England is banned then increased,no you couldnt make that up.
Only in our world of RL!!
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| It's got to be the same 17 as last week for me.
Two sides who want complete polar opposite styles of games. Catalans will want an attritional, stop-start game like at Magic and last week's semi. Whereas we'll want to keep the ball in play as much as possible.
The weather looks ok for the type of game we want so far (fingers crossed!). I can see us winning convincingly, but I've been wrong before.
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| Quote ="Jason65"You are right before a test series the Captain of England is banned then increased,no you couldnt make that up.
Only in our world of RL!!'"
Absolutely f%&^*&g baffling. Trying to build our national side to compete at the very highest level with a coaching setup that most have more confidence in than any other for a very long time, and our own game come up with absolute pelters like this. I'm not even 100% what the initial ban was for...if it was the late hit (where the passer was right at the line - top half play in my book) then it shouldn't have even been a penalty.
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| Quote ="Stu M"And a little off topic but couldn't find a relevant thread...
Lees wins his appeal, downgraded to a Grade A and fine only.
Williams appeal was deemed as frivolous and they've increased his ban from 1 to 2 games. The England captain, just before a Test Series. You couldn't make it up. Only in Rugby League.'"
Be interesting to see how many times Lees has been called up by the Disciplinary this year.
Wrt Williams I think Smith and Lomax should be getting the nod for the forthcoming internationals.
Unless of course Lomax has been playing with an injury and needs an op again.
Looking forward to the game this Saturday and think you will edge it by 8.
Best 2 teams in the league over the season.
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| Turning to the game itself, what do we think?
Form and recent performances all push towards a 10 to 20 point semi comfortable win but I doubt that will be the case.
I fancy our chances providing we are disciplined both with and without the ball. I suspect Catalan will try and spoil a bit so we can’t fall for that tactic.
Best description would be cautiously optimistic but they are the worst ones when you end up losing.
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| Quote ="chapylad"Be interesting to see how many times Lees has been called up by the Disciplinary this year.
Wrt Williams I think Smith and Lomax should be getting the nod for the forthcoming internationals.
Unless of course Lomax has been playing with an injury and needs an op again.
Looking forward to the game this Saturday and think you will edge it by 8.
Best 2 teams in the league over the season.'"
Please not sick note Lomax. We’re moving away from the old bring in the new. I don’t give a toss what happens in these games, blood someone new
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| Quote ="WWste"Please not sick note Lomax. We’re moving away from the old bring in the new. I don’t give a toss what happens in these games, blood someone new'"
I'm not sure Lomax is the way to go either. Wane may have gone off him anyway due to his World Cup decision. The problem is England badly lack depth in the playmaking positions - both at halfback and fullback.
Harry Smith will probably play - alongside him I don't see many other options outside Lewis Dodd. Lewis and Pryce [imay[/i be options in the future but not now. Williams was poor in 2022 but had a great World Cup - Wane may feel he can get a similar improvement from Dodd.
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| Quote ="MadDogg"I'm not sure Lomax is the way to go either. Wane may have gone off him anyway due to his World Cup decision. The problem is England badly lack depth in the playmaking positions - both at halfback and fullback.
Harry Smith will probably play - alongside him I don't see many other options outside Lewis Dodd. Lewis and Pryce [imay[/i be options in the future but not now. Williams was poor in 2022 but had a great World Cup - Wane may feel he can get a similar improvement from Dodd.'"
I would go Lewis personally, a halfback combo of Smith and Dodd just seems too similar to work and lacking a creative edge.
Of course, Williams would be my first choice to partner Smith by a landslide but the RFL appear to be an organisation of masochist's so that is no longer possible until the 3rd test when the series could be mathematically over anyway. I read Stu's original post hours ago and i am still shocked!
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| Quote ="BoredWiganer"I would go Lewis personally, a halfback combo of Smith and Dodd just seems too similar to work and lacking a creative edge.
Of course, Williams would be my first choice to partner Smith by a landslide but the RFL appear to be an organisation of masochist's so that is no longer possible until the 3rd test when the series could be mathematically over anyway. I read Stu's original post hours ago and i am still shocked!'"
Yeah, Williams and Smith would be the ideal pairing - one an instinctive "eyes up" off the cuff player and one more controlling with a good kicking game.
Not sure who I would bring in to replace Williams for the first two. Welsby would be ideal but then who plays at FB?
Lomax has been playing busted again for weeks with a whole host of knocks and given his age and the fact that Wane is trying to build a team long-term then he's not the answer.
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| Quote ="Stu M"Yeah, Williams and Smith would be the ideal pairing - one an instinctive "eyes up" off the cuff player and one more controlling with a good kicking game.
Not sure who I would bring in to replace Williams for the first two. Welsby would be ideal but then who plays at FB?
Lomax has been playing busted again for weeks with a whole host of knocks and given his age and the fact that Wane is trying to build a team long-term then he's not the answer.'"
A strong argument could be made for a trio of Tomkins, Welsby, and Smith as the 3. Come to think of it, that's very strong. Assuming Tomkins is still available for International selection? A few heads will fall off from the "Wane picks all his mates" brigade, but he has proven as recently as last weekend that he is still more than capable of coming up with big plays.
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| Quote ="ralvag"A strong argument could be made for a trio of Tomkins, Welsby, and Smith as the 3. Come to think of it, that's very strong. Assuming Tomkins is still available for International selection? A few heads will fall off from the "Wane picks all his mates" brigade, but he has proven as recently as last weekend that he is still more than capable of coming up with big plays.'"
Tomkins is retiring after Saturday.
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| Looking at the 40 man training squad the options for 1, 6 & 7 are:
Jordan Abdull
Lewis Dodd
Mikey Lewis
Harry Smith
Jonny Lomax
Jack Welsby
George Williams
As Williams is suspended and Abdull hasn’t really played there’s not a lot of options.
I think we should be looking to the future so should rule Lomax out. I don’t think Smith and Dodd are a good combo. I’d probably go for either Mikey Lewis or Welsby to 6 and Ash Handley to 1.
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| I'm guessing the "big news" is this Havard is back.
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| Quote ="Stu M"Tomkins is retiring after Saturday.'"
You do wonder if he could be persuaded, one last outing and favour for his good mate Wane, although i do feel it would be unfair to ask.
As you say, Welsby to 6 would be an ideal scenario but if not Tomkins or Welsby i have no idea who would play fullback to a high enough standard.
I was saying to a mate yesterday how frustrating the whole Williams situation is, we have one chance a year (sometimes not even that!) to play some good quality international games against worthy opposition and with our best side out there. It is all well and good nilling France mid season with half of what would be a realistic test team for England, and hopefully in a few years France can start to put up some stronger opposition but that is currently not the case.
This Tonga series is exactly the sort of game we need to be going full throttle into and having a player that is currently so pivital to our international team serving a ban for 2/3rds of the test is really going to put a strain on our practice for the World Cup.
All the other Pacific based teams will be competing in the Pacific Championships. Say that these matches are successful and the Pacific teams make it a yearly competition, we could very easily find ourselves in the scenario of having nobody of note to play going forward as all the Pacific teams (including Tonga) don't see a reason to travel all the way to England when they can play in a top level competition on their own doorstep.
There is a genuine chance that this series could be the only one we get of substance before the next World Cup, and having our captain and one of our key (and most experienced) players guarenteed to miss the majority because he is serving a ban that has now been doubled is a travesty, not to mention one of our own creating which just adds to the frustration.
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| Quote ="sergeant pepper"I'm guessing the "big news" is this Havard is back.'"
I'd be absolutely staggered if Havard plays after being out for so long. He won't be match fit and any sort of re-occurrence means you are down a sub in a Final. It would be madness to take the risk and a Final being his first game back.
Also with all due respect to him, him playing or not won't be the difference between you losing or winning the game like say French.
We brought Walmsley back for the play offs and to be honest he looked way short of full fitness and was ineffective really.
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