I watched the game again focusing solely on Clark. He did ok. He put in some cracking hit ups running the ball in fast and hard and looked enthusiastic. I dont know why so many people are saying he was poor.

I thought he was solid at the game without being spectacular. Plenty of enthusiasm and endeavour. Both he and Bullock were good for a first hit out and highlighted just what a waste of a jersey playing Clubb is. We have far better fighting for a place.

I just wonder what we expected from him? When we bought him we were promised an uncompromising impact prop according to the management but he has seemed to be playing longer minutes in the reserves and showing a greater range of skills without being a big basher. He looks like he could play the role that Pettybourne and Tautai were unsucessfully used for allowing someone like Bullock to punch holes. He did well for a first outing.

He’s warranted another outing that’s for sure. I’d like to see Liam Byrne brought back in to the mix in place of Lockers. Maybe a bench spot for Kilner too.

He will get better and better, let’s judge him in a few month. Massive upgrades on Naverette imo

It’s a good way of looking at it really. If we say Navarette out and Clark in then I’m confident that will be a big improvement over time. George Burgess for Tautai should be a huge upgrade if he can get in decent shape and over this hip problem (or manage it as best he can). Add in Byrne and Partington being a year on in their development, Havard looking like he’s going to be a very good player and Jack Wells back as an option and we should be way in front of where we were at in that department last year.

Just need select the right ones now.

I did say he was poor, perhaps in frustration at how we played in the main and the fact I didn’t notice him on the field. I’ve read people’s comments and despite not seeing/noticing him play I’ll take peoples word for it that he went well.

Strangely the players who go about their business quietly with little fuss or noticeable attributes tend to be some of the best.

It was more a case of what bit he did looked very promising. The way he ran full steam into the Toronto defence was refreshing. He looked far from the finished product but definitely added some much needed physicality and intensity to our carries.

For someone to hit the line like Clarke does he needs to make plenty metres after collision, Id love to see if anyone took these stats and could find who is the best in our team at this?

I'm sure somebody somewhere posted he made 60 metres from 6 tackles compared to Clubb doing only 12 metres for 6 tackles, Could be wrong though, It might be on Mikes site

Quote ="The Whiffy Kipper"I'm sure somebody somewhere posted he made 60 metres from 6 tackles compared to Clubb doing only 12 metres for 6 tackles, Could be wrong though, It might be on Mikes site'" https://www.superleague.co.uk/match-centre/report/3119 Bottom of the page. Clubb: 16 tackles 8 carries 47 yards 6 yards average Clark: 15 tackles 6 carries 62 yards 10 yards average

Quote ="The Whiffy Kipper"I'm sure somebody somewhere posted he made 60 metres from 6 tackles compared to Clubb doing only 12 metres for 6 tackles, Could be wrong though, It might be on Mikes site'" https://www.superleague.co.uk/match-centre/report/3119 Bottom of the page. Clubb: 16 tackles 8 carries 47 yards 6 yards average Clark: 15 tackles 6 carries 62 yards 10 yards average

How many of those tackles were first up?

It doesn't say

I appreciate how sad this is, but as BFUT is my pet hatr and I was off Friday I did my own stats.
First time I've ever done this so I'll post them.

But I'll tell you what, there is NO WAY, he made 16 tackles
He attempted less in my book and there was 2/3 where he came in 3rd/4th man in and AFTER the tackle was complete he put his hands on one of the other tackles back. I didnt count that as a tackle, as I didnt for all the other players.

Below is my commentary as I was doing it
1st 2 sets for both sides he makes 2 tackles and misses 1
Makes zero hit ups.

6 sets apiece 5 tackles (1miss)
2 hit ups
Were 11 mins in

In Toronto's 7th set on the 2nd tackle something really funny happens
Referee tells Tony Cpub hes offside and not to get involved in the tackle!!!!

Toronto Just had a penalty and a repeat set

So 9 sets in hes attempted 7 tackles
Missed 2
And 2 hit ups.
What I will say is hes been 3rd man and put his hand on the already tackled player about 4 times as well.

20th minute By the time of the first try
9 attempted tackles (3misses)
3 hit ups

From the kick off set he attempts 3 tackles and misses 1
And the goes off after 22 mins

So 12 attempts (4 misses)
3 hit ups after 22 mins

[uI took a break at that point!!![/u

Then 2nd half

Comes back on with 6mins 40secs left and makes 3 hit ups (albeit 15 yards from Toronto line) in next 90 seconds.
So doubles his hit ups in 90 seconds compared to first 22mins.

Then 2 more hit ups and 2 more tackles in last 4 mins.

So in his last 6 1/2 min spell he makes 5 hit ups and 2 tackles.

He must have good fitness levels as hes getting better as game goes on (or hes been sat on his arris that long hes fully recouped his energy)

Overall 29mins

14 attempted tackles (4 misses)
8 hit ups (5 of them in last 6 minutes 10 yards from Toronto line)

#Imnotobsessedwithbfut

I then did the others
Heres my commentary as I was doing it

1st half
Bullock comes on and played 17mins makes 7 hit ups and 10 tackles (no misses)
Clarke plays 7mins makes 1 hit up and 9 tackles (no misses)

Compare that to BFUT
3 hit ups
8 tackles and 4 misses

What I will say is partington will have done double the amount of work as BFUT easily (not counted his 1st half stats though).

[uSo I did Partingtons and Lockers 1st half[/u

Partington 33mins
Hit ups 9
Tackles 23 (plus 1 miss)

Lockers 21mins
Hit ups 5
Tackles 19 (plus 1 miss)

The reply I got from one of the lads on the chat was :-

Partington made more tackles and carries on Thursday that Clubb has in all 3 games put gether.

He was right!!!

My final comment was this
Overall 29mins

14 attempted tackles (4 misses)
8 hit ups (5 of them in last 6 minutes 10 yards from Toronto line)

#Imnotobsessedwithbfut


From official site he attempted 16 tackles with 3 misses (they must count 4th man in and just putting your hands on the other tackles back as a Tackle!
But I wasnt far off

It was really interesting just watching individual players and not concentrate on the game as such.

I did Lockers and Partingon (and I'm not a massive Partington fan) as they were involved in everything that first 20mins
Dont forget Lockers acted as a pivot around 14/15 times as well as the above.

With regards to what I did I counted tackles and misses separately, I can only assume when it says Tony clubb 16 tackles that this includes the misses as well? There is absolutely zero way he made 16 tackles even if you include the 4th man in hand on the back tackles

Obsessed

Your sadness is greatly appreciated in our world.

My observations were similar Jukesy. I didn't go into the detail you have but your findings pretty much back up my impressions. I'm not usually one for bagging individual players but I think we're at the point where Clubb is actually detrimental to the team when he plays. I think it is worth adding to your stats that the quality of what little work he does is not even good. I watched him for a spell at the match and he's picking and choosing when he's making himself available as an option. Very noticeable that you make a similar point regarding the bulk of his work being in a 5 minute spell when we're inside the opposition 10. Not exactly doing the hard yards!

I'd also like to compare and contrast with Lockers as I'm getting sick of reading (more on the other site than here to be fair) that he isn't contributing as he should be. It should be clear to anyone with even a modicum of rugby nous that the quality of O'Loughlin's work is still on another level to most players on the field. He's the only one, for example, who can consistently play the game right in the teeth of the opposition line with barely even a risk of getting tackled. His slowing of the opposition ruck is outstanding and that's before we get to his range of passing and link play.

Sure, we have to manage his game time these days, but when he's on he's still the player he always has been. Clubb, on the other hand...

So first of all - My criticism strangely enough over the past 3 weeks is not with Clubb per se - It's the fact that in Rounds 1&2 he played Clubb with a clearly not ready Burgess & 3 Youngsters - We got away with it week 1
Week 2 was a disaster - After losing Burgess (And Powell) to then include Clarke/Bullock & Greenwood in the 21 and not select any in the 17 was Mind Boggling!
And when you then are relying on a Senior Prop that does on average 20mins - for 6 carries - 10 Tackles with 3 of them being misses it just leaves too much for the 3-4 young lads to pick up IMO

I've criticised Clubb's effort/contribution over the past 2 seasons and after the Nou Camp debacle to find out we'd given him 2 more years was, well, Mind Boggling again!

But if we did have 3-4 other Senior props banging out Big minutes i.e. Flower/Burgess/Bullock/Clarke I could accept 10min Tony to a point
When were missing 2 of them through injury and we don't select the other 2!!!!



But to the point in Bold
That's a great observation and believe it or believe it not something I was discussing Saturday night whilst sinking a few.
I mentioned that watching an individual is different to watching a team - And on the night I'd picked up on his positioning and how he didn't seem to be around the action, watching it back and it's clear.
Defensively he's nearly always defending at the side of the referee behind the ruck, He gets to the Tackle just as it's being completed and is 3rd man in or he is close to the tackle then retreats behind the ruck again.
And in attack he just doesn't seem to be an option, very rarely putting himself either side of the ruck and even when he does look like an option he gives the impression he isn't as his hands on dummy runs aren't ready to receive the ball.

So glad you mentioned Lockers - And don't even get me started on some of them on the other site especially the latest one about him being glad he's injured and hoping it may end his career! - It is like watching a master class.
3 years ago when Leigh were in SL (I think you can work out how this came about) I saw the Leigh video the night after, of the game at our place with 2 of the Leigh coaching staff, before we started I praised Williams & Farrell and the reply from them was Lockers - And sitting with them as they were watching the game and pointing out what was causing them problems over & over again they were commenting on how they were being picked apart by Lockers and in their words how "Every tiny, little facet of the game that goes unnoticed he excels in". As you say how he straightens the attack up leaving room to play next PTB, taking the ball into the line and attracting 2 x defenders and still being able as a pivot to find his outside option who then has space to play etc.
Listen, were not too far away from him calling it a day, and I heard someone going on about another "Myth" from those that want him to retire (As they've been wishing for the last 5 years). This thing that he's giving 3/4 penalties a game away - He isn't, he's averaging around 1 per game & with the number of times he's involved then it's a fair enough ratio.
Averaging 30 tackles and 15/16 carries a game and then added to that his distribution work and his contribution is still fantastic.

How many of those bagging Lockers will be saying we miss him next season? Fans don't rate him, but every single player he has played with and against and every single coach does. Who are you going to believe?

Lockers got bagged after the Cas game about the penalties he gave away and when all came to all, he’d conceded one penalty all night. He’s been such a special player and a bad eye aside, he looks ready for a big year. I really hope the side can give him the send off he deserves if he calls it quits (he is talking more in ‘ifs’ again).


There’s no words left to say on Clubb that hasn’t been said. I’ve defended him in the past but his three appearances this season have been embarrassing really. When I say embarrassing as well, I don’t even mean just he should be embarrassed (although he should be). Adrian Lam and any other coaching staff or senior players pushing for him to be in the side on the basis of what’s being produced should be embarrassed. If he’s carrying an injury and is being picked then Lams head has gone. To be producing so little in games means surely something is not right. Tony Clubb has been a good servant for Wigan but you can’t let sentiment and popularity get in the way of the team winning.

Our scouting network needs an overhaul especially when it comes to forwards.

We've got the best young forward pack coming through that I have ever seen at Wigan!!

Byrne Havard Kilner Rushton. Give it 3 or 4 years and these boys will our front 4 and will be ripping it up. Provided the nrl dont come looking which they may do as i am sure they will already be looking now at them.

How many times have we heard you say that about young players?

Wasnt Ryan Hampshire going to be the next Andrew Johns at one point?