FPN's "attacking" stats from yesterday - remember this is as a starting prop.

4 carries the whole game - yes 4.

2 errors.

1 penalty given away.

It's no wonder our outside backs are always injured/look knackered when they're doing the front row's job for them

Did he make many tackles? We didn't have the ball much.

Spot on!!

I've said for years that we're not far off being a really dominant side but we rely too much on 'back sets'. Maybe I'm old fashioned and maybe I've not moved with the times but I like props to run the ball hard and straight and win the collision to give backs the platform to be creative and play what's in front of them?

Our props (or tactics) have been a disgrace recently. I'm a fan of Sutton (although I wish somebody would superglue his hands) but he's looked off form and the less said about FPN, Clubb and Tautai the better.

That's the main area that needs a rebuild. We need two new props to play alongside Sutton and Flower for me.

Really makes me laugh with despair that every other club can find at least one good prop and we haven't found one since Coley (possibly Lima) Not a great advert for a coach who was a front rower.

If Flower is to stay he would be no. 5 on my list of props. If i had my way it would be Sutton, Clubb, Tai'i and Bousquet. Thats a pretty impressive front row. Presuming Tai'i and Bousquet haven't signed for anyone else then it's also possible. If we are not in for at least one of these i will be scratching my head.

Flower at his best brings an intensity to the side and he's excellent in defence. I've been posting all over the place that we simply must be in for Bousquet and Ta'ai. I'd love a starting front row of Bousquet and Flower with Ta'ai and Sutton/Clubb to add impact from the bench.

The club I'm sure will need to move some players out to bring others in, so fingers crossed we can do that and get in the 3 players we desperately need (1 scrum half and 2 props).

Agreed. Let me throw a spanner in the works. If you were only allowed 1 of them which one would it be? I love Bousquet's aggression but Tai'i is an absolute beast, He would be my pick. Think he can cover at 13 too which would help.

Frank is stealing a living at Wigan. Usually on the field for less than 40 minutes, and does Sweet FA when he is on the field.

I'd love to try to tempt Jarred Wharea-Hargreaves over for a couple of seasons. More of a wish than anything but what a cracking prop!

Bousquet for me. He's younger then Ta'ai and looks to be hitting his peak. He's more of an out and out prop then Ta'ai also and we desperately need a prop with some size, aggression and motivation.

I honestly don't have an issue with our props, just the type of game they are instructed to play.

Come on ...

SW's done and dusted for me, but surely he's not instructing his props to avoid tackling, drop the ball and give away penalties.

Let's admit it, Clubb and Tautai will never be anything more than mid-table journeymen, and FPN appears to have lost interest in the game.

That's three we need to replace before we even start wondering if Sutton will ever get in shape or Flower rediscover his aggression.

there's props available in the NRL where getting Micky Pea back next season from Newcastle he was one of the top meter makers 2 years ago in this comp we was gutted to lose him but glad he's to re-join our pack next season the point is there's players over there who are within our cap range to bring in so if your needing to strengthen in the forwards you need to do some scouting

I think there is something in what Trainman says. I am not saying we have an ideal set of props, but I do think they look a lot poorer due to the game they are told to play. In a nutshell they are used for defence and our backs, particularly wingers cart the ball up a lot. FPN's lack of interest could very well be because he is fed up with being told to play the game he is. We have form for doing this sort of thing. We sign players who look good and then when they get here we ask them to play a different game or even in a different position.

I have come to the conclusion you can't form a sensible opinion about all but a small number of players. They do as they are told and it doesn't matter if they are suited to the job they are asked to do or if the tactics are remotely good enough to deliver the goods anyway.

Frank had a fantastic cv when we signed him.

See that Leeds are recruiting for 2018, Gold Coast Titans prop Nathaniel Peteru on a three-year contract from 2018.

I still think we have a great prop on the books with FPN. He's not being used correctly though and it could be the reason he's not looked great. In the games where he takes the ball up a lot, he's looked a completely different player. He's like the others at our club and being told to allow the backs to do the work out of our own half.

Watching Melbourne last week, it's very noticeable that they have the exact same tactic.

Sorry, don't mean to gloat (honest) but for some reason this thread has just reminded me of when Taylor signed for Hull and a couple of posters on here accused him of lacking ambition and said he wasn't that good anyway. I said it was the opposite of lacking ambition because if he plays a key role in turning Hull around and wins at Wembley he will go down as a hero. Probably the only thing I've got right in the last 3 years.

I doubt anyone accused him of not being good enough with a serious head on. The annoyance at him was precisely because we could see he was, and is, good.

He was part of our double winning team when he came off the bench in both finals, and is an antidote to Wigan fans who claim that Shaun Wane has never found and improved any props. He was nothing when he came from Hull KR.

He had a strange year at Salford when he was overweight and that probably caused folk to question his attitude. But he has certainly proved his worth at Hull and along with Watts and Houghton forms the best front row in the comp.

Tbf to him I think he won Salford's player of the year, overweight or not.

As you guys have said, the number of carries from your front row must be a tactical thing. I can't imagine imagine Wane standing for it if it wasn't what he wanted.

Yes of course, that's we we signed him.

Wane didn't "find" him, HKR did. We signed a good player who went straight into the 1st team. Along with Bateman he is a rarity. A very good player signed by Wigan in recent years.

To be fair I think he came to us a good player but improved a lot before moving on.