Need to be brought together to agree on what constitutes a "Loose Carry".

I think they need to be brought together to collect their P45s.

But we shouldn't blame them too much ... they're only following orders.

Watched the video this morning. Some hilarious comments from Stuart Cummins, who didn't much want to talk about the near-identical situation at Wembley and felt that when Sam was lying on the floor, the soon-to-be recipient of a blatant swining arm, he was 'fair game'.

Reminded me how Cummins was also a truly terrible referee. In fact, he could have been the one who set the new all-time low standards that we're currently having to endure today.

Was the Burgess no try in semi given as a try and then overturned?
Some strange decisions given in hull game on Thursday the play the ball gets worse

I had no problem with the shot on Tomkins. What is a tackler supposed to do in that situation? The penalty however for me was the right call for the push which Sam reacted to when trying to stand to play the ball.

Cummings generally tends to have some very strange observations and interpretations every week, just like the refs he lacks any consistency.

Think he's just a spineless oaf, who lacks the courage to criticise his beloved referees, even though they frequently do lots and lots of things deserving of intense criticism ... much like his own performances when he carried the whistle.

Well when Sam was face down on the floor all Amor had to do was put his hand on him. So he could have tried that instead of jumping on him and giving him a crack on the way down, which was what the penalty was actually for not the push.

These officials have reached an all time low , even the coaches have lost patience, see Thursday night , why is Mr Ganson still in a job as he the man accountable, making the game a laughing stock

I always thought that Ganson was one of the better SL refs. I remember being told that the players liked him. But it's undeniable that he is the man in charge while this appalling downslide in standards is taking place. Some recent stuff from the video refs has been utterly farcical.

I honestly can't understand how nothing is being done about it.

From who? If it is from Ganson, then one of these clowns isn't following the directive on what constitutes a loose carry.

Clubb over the line with ball sort of dislodged from a sort of loose carry - no try

Barba over the line with ball sort of dislodged from a sort of loose carry - try

The only order that they could possibly both be following is "Screw Wigan over in any 50/50 decision".

Absolutely nothing wrong with that challenge. It is a physical game. If an opponent is there to be hit legally you hit them. The fact is had Sam not reacted when standing up it would have been play on.

It is the role of the defence particularly Props to hurt the opposition ball carrier. There was no punch, no contact with the head. Amor was just going in to hurt Sam but not illegally.

Switch it on its head would you be happy if Barba was in that position would you be happy for one of our guys just to put his hands on him to affect the tackle? I personally wouldn't.

Mate, you've been talking some utter crap of late but this takes the biscuit. You mention the word legally in your post. Maybe you should go away and actually read up on what constitutes legally. A swinging arm with your hand balled into a fist is not legal no matter where it hits! If that had been the other way round you would have been slating our player for lack of discipline. You're becoming an absolute joke of a poster. Do us all a favour and give yourself some time off. Please.

You may say that. I couldn't possibly comment.

I've been making similar comments about the officials for a while now. Due to their poor quality the players don't respect them, leading to scrappy games where the players try it on with the ref or try to take the law into their own hands. After that, it's a downward spiral IMO.

I'd love to know what measures are taken to deal with incompetent or bias (or both!) referees.

If a player puts a toe out of line, he's usually off for a very public humiliation at the disciplinary committee. Same for a coach - he utters a word of dissatisfaction, and he could be publically reprimanded and/or fined.

But what happens when the refs screw up, particularly given that it could cost a team a Cup Final? There surely must be some comeuppance for some of the performances we've seen of late, especially the video refs, who now seem to drop at least one gonad every game. But if it happens at all, it's always behind closed doors ... which is a real let-off for them.

I've got no issue with Amor making his presence felt, I thought a penalty was the correct decision as he went down with a clenched fist and first contact was with his fist. He punched Sam on the shoulder.


As for the Barba try this is where having to have 'conclusive evidence to overturn the on field decision' is not working. I've said it time and time again, just let the VR make a decision. The reason Clubbs was a no try was because that was the infield call, Barba's was given because it went up as a try.

Pretty much nothing. There are a lack of referees already, meaning mediocre and downright awful performances cannot be subject to bans/downgrading, because there'd not be enough to cover the next round of fixtures.

This "swinging arm" quote does make me smile. How is a player supposed to affect a tackle without swinging his arm?


As for the penalty it was not given until the pushing match when they stand up.


If a prop has a free shot of one of the oppositions creative players he is in my opinion letting his team down if he doesn't take it. Just because it is one of our players on the receiving end of it doesn't suddenly make me think it is wrong.

As for the rest of your rant I actually don't mind sometimes conceding a penalty or 2, it goes with the style we have chosen to play. Consistently giving away penalties when we have the ball flopping on tackled players and penalties on the 4th or 5th tackle though are ridiculous, especially when they are unforced. Think on 2 occasions against Saints we gave away penalties off dominant tackles. Teams running hard fighting for a quick play the ball winning penalties is credit to them, giving away unforced penalties through being lazy or stupid is another matter though.

I await further ranting.....

I liked the idea of the initial ref's call prior to sending the try or no try to the video ref, but as you say it isn't working. If it is a tight call they take the easy way out and go with the ref.

From when I have seen it in Union the ref doesn't make a call and simply asks, for any reason not to award the try. It is then decided on from that point.

union has two calls 1 any reason i cannot award the try 1 Try yes or no, subtly different, also the onfield ref views the footage with the VR and can over rule

For me did swing his arm and was a penalty.

Sam Burgess did that a year or 2 ago and got penalised for it but the hit was more ferocious it was still deemed illegal due to the movement of the arm.

You surely know the difference between someone swinging his arm to actually make a tackle and someone swinging it with a clenched fist into the back of a player lying prone on the floor. Did Ben Westwood's swinging arm on Blake Green make you giggle as well?

And while it is true that the penalty was only given after the scuffle, Hicks was clearly told because he indicated the penalty was for the swinging arm.

The standard of refereeing is getting poorer because the pool of referees the RFL have to choose from is getting smaller.

The reason it's getting smaller is because of the constant abuse referees receive from officials and parents in the amateur game , at both youth and open age .

I reckon that a lot of the people moaning about the refs in Super League are probably the same people hurling abuse at young referees on a Sunday morning. Many of these refs are children under 18 years of age. It's disgusting some of the stuff that goes on, that's why the numbers are dwindling.

Well I can tell you that your assumption is wrong in my case and I strongly resent it.

I maintain the difference was the initial contact was with the fist onto Tomkins' shoulder. I agree that pretty much every forward in the game would take the opportunity, had he dropped on him forcefully then that's fine but he didn't.
D

I liked it when it was sent up for the VR to make a decision, only if the VR was unable to make a decision then it was sent back down as refs call. I've lost count of the number of times this season I've seen a try wrongly given or denied due to the insufficient evidence rubbish we have now.