I always thought Leeds would win but how poor was that wire team,their pack seemed to lack bite a total lack of aggression,England looked out of his depth,not even Hill or the other senior players like Westwood and Waterhouse seemed up for the fight until it was too late.Myler just aint good enough,i dont know if o'brien was injured but he would definately have started for me.I dont see them challenging for old trafford,maybe it will be their year next year as the wire fans like to keep on dreaming.

I said all week I though Leeds had far too much for them. There's real issues at Wire IMO with the 1,6 and 7 positions. They're missing Briers massively and whatever trio they play in those positions I don't think they're as good as the other top sides at the moment.

In terms of individuals I think Ratchford is a top player but he's best at fullback for me. I think Russell is struggling a bit and seems to stifle their attack because he rarely gets his head up. Lads like Myler and O'Brien aren't good enough and Myler had a nightmare yesterday. It was a big mistake not to pick Bridge at 6!

I thought Myler was daft to leave Salford at the time. He as the main man at Salford, his organisational skills, and kicking game were developing well, but he left for Wire and struggled to emerge from the shadow of Briers and his development has stagnated big time

Nobody is denying wire were awful, but what does that say about leeds? With the state of our non existent attack and the amount of ball and field position they had that game should have been over at half time. Wigan would have been 20 points up at least by half time. As soon as bridge moved to half back we created several clear cut chances which we bombed each time. We were poor, very poor, leeds got a couple of slightly dodgy calls and they won by a mighty eight points. Do not be worried by them come play off time if you are on your game.

wire are a team of bottlers full stop.

They are still a dangerous team but no where near as they have been the past few years. Myler is just plain crap. At best he is a good support player but they just don't have the spark there for him to back up and it's really showing. Russell is a decent player but he is just missing something, can't quite put my finger on it. Don't think long term he is good enough for a big team. Asotasi (sp?) what a terrible signing he has turned out to be...

Has there ever been a semi final in recent history that has had eight players from each team aged 30 or over?

Leeds - Bailey, Burrow, JJB, McGuire, Sinfield, Peacock, Leuluai & Kirke

Wire - M Monaghan, J Monaghan, Bridge, Waterhouse, Westwood, Asotasi, Wood & Higham

A lot of rebuilding to do in the next couple of years I would think.

That to me looks a lot worse for Leeds than Wire.

The playeys Leeds are losing especially - JJB, Maguire, Burrow, Sinfield and Peacock are the real nucleus of the side that has dominated the English game.

I really don't think you can underestimate how big a loss losing those big game, born winners are going to be. In the current British game, that is devoid of real superstars, how do you replace a great like Peacock? How do Leeds replace 5 champions without seeing a decline in on field performance? We lost Faz, Radders and Newton around the same time and it crushed us. How will they cope with 5 greats + three stalwarts?

In regards to Wire, the players are good, but have proven over time to be show ponies. Bridge, Westwood, Wood & Higham have all flattered to deceive and M Monaghan seems to have been on a rapid decline for 24 months.

Wire will replace decent playeys with other decent players, after all that's what they do. They'll maintain the status quo of a few CC successes and a decent tilt at the league but I can't see them bringing in players good enough to seal the title. That class of player just isn't available the moment. Also history has proven that big signings don't work unless they are there to supplement an already established group of club trained players.

Wire are a pretty useful outfit lacking in leadership, bad planning that the loss of Briers took them by surprise. Shows how lucky we are to have Lockers (with hopefully Bateman as an adequate replacement) and Matty Smith.

Wire have got plenty of good players, the squad is just totally unbalanced. They can get away with it when they are chucking it around against the rabble, but they aren't structured enough to tough it out against the top sides. I also think Smith has lost his way a little, some of his decisions are baffling. Maybe time for him to step aside?

And hand it over to Agar

Massive job on for both of them but especially Leeds.

How do you go about replacing guys like Sinfield, Peacock and Burrow? They're the backbone if the team and Leeds through and through. Their academy teams haven't been as strong these past few seasons as they were when lads like Sinfield and Burrow came through and it's next to impossible to bring in that quality from the NRL.

We'll hopefully be in a position to take full advantage of both teams 'transitional' years that they're bound to go through.

Exactly the same as what i said.



I agree about us hopefully capitalising on it as well. I think in all likely hood Saints will be our closest rivals for a few seasons.

I thought Tony Smith got it wrong with his team selection for Catalans. He had three men missing for that one and those who played were still getting over the trip and the game.
McDermott though rested his main players for the Bradford game, they lost and he got pilloried. Yet his team looked the fresher and 14-0 in their favour at half time meant game over.
Leeds fans won't give a thought (or anything else) about the Bradford loss if they win the C Cup after all these years.

We're at the total opposite end of the scale aren't we in that we can only improve 'if' we can keep a reasonably settled squad. We've got so much improvement in almost every member of the squad and we only have two players in Bowen and Lockers who may only have another season or two in them. Unlike Wire and Leeds we have decent options to replace those guys anyway both internally and externally via lads like Hampshire, Bateman and possibly a certain Sam Tomkins.

It would be a waste if we don't at least continue to compete for trophies over the next 5+ years.

Well, they couldn't have been given a better chance. London next week, McDermott could rest nearly everyone and still expect a result, whereas what does Daz Powell do against Warrington? Rest a few for the CC final and sod the two points in the league, or just head down and go for both?

wire were anonymous, only noticed Westwood was playing in the second half!

anyone else think Halls 2nd try was forward? I notice they never showed the side on view in any of the replays after the first time.

Didnt affect the result anyhow.

Criticises margin of victory.....in a semi final.

One of the dumbest things I've read on here.

Some Nice sensible reasoned points. All very fair assumptions of our shortcomings on Saturday.
It was disappointing that we gave so much ball to Leeds which simply drained us. I think the stats were 80% possession for Leeds for the first 20 minutes and they were just 2 nil up.... so I'm not that worried for play offs if we face them again, I doubt they'll get that level of possession again.

But Picking up on Rogues' special rule he has about players over 30 in a team meaning it's rubbish.
we'll replace:
M Monas: with

Darryl Clark (I have heard it off a current SL coach so I'm not being arrogant)
Waterhouse: with Ben Currie (19) who has been Second row on the 10 game unbeaten run while 'House was injured
Asotasi: being rubbish is fuelling rumours we may offload him, so Simms would be his replacement (29..phew!!)
Wood: is the odd one he's been poor and injured a lot but he may do one more year because Mike Cooper has one more season in the NRL with St George before he comes back to us, and he has been playing very well indeed. so that would be a twenty something warrington academy product with first grade NRL experience.... that's Rogues worst nightmare...
Higham again while no one rates him on here he's been superb for us, he'll go another year and then more than likely make way for academy product Brad Dwyer to step up to be Clarks understudy.
Bridge: no problems in good nick, great utility, player bags of experience.

Westwood clearly needs help. Along with Hill they have had to carry a young inexperienced pack(England, Evans, G Riley, Laithwaite, Curry etc etc) Wood And waterhous have not played much and Asotasi isn't ever given more than half an hours game time. Ashton Simms will help, he does work that goes noticed. (Our Waterhouse fans tell us his work goes unnoticed)

So while Rogues was clearly having a "look at Wigan full of kids (but not in the Semis btw)and dirty old Warrington full of over 30's" jibe. it wasn't a great jibe as its all largely sorted for next season, and we lost a lot of old farts at the end of last season as well, one of which has just bagged himself his fifth Wembley Final (Carvell).

Out of interest, is it a given that Cooper is going back to Wire when his current deal ends? No risk of him, yknow, getting another one or possibly looking at a different NRL club?

I ask because he was fairly anonymous over here, but seems to be going steady for now in the NRL, why would he come back? What for exactly?

There's a reason why he hasn't been signed by an NRL club and Wire have signed him instead and it's not because he loves the Wolfs, it's because he's steady at best and can't get a look-in in the NRL.

Also, he'll be 30 by the time next season starts.

Ashton Simms isn't gifted like his brother Tariq but he more than makes up with it in his desire and effort, polar opposite to Roy Asotasi.

Of the four semi final teams I thought Cas were the best by some considerable distance.
Leeds must be careful or they won't get the victory most seem they are certain of.
As for Wire and Widnes, the thread title says it all about the Wolfs and Widnes looked a very poor mid table team. As has been said Wire will still have to re-build but their playmakers of Ratchford, Myler and O'Brien aren't good enough. They need to find a half back coach from within the club and promote him to first team duties, if they look deep enough I'm sure they'll find one that knows the half back trade.

Perhaps Briers' enforced departure finally hit them more than they would like to admit.

bugger I seem to have put the mockers on that move
[urlhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/28755474[/url

its just an Agreement to rejoin the Wire when he comes back but a few of us that watch the NRL were thinking he'll do a James Graham ...ring home ask his mum if he's needed back home if not he'll stay out there....

and fair play to him he was the most low profile of all the superleague players going out there and hes done a great job, and reading the Aussie Forums they are hoping he extends his stay.

He has a business here in Warrington but nothing he needs to rush back to.