I'm just watching the 83 JPT Final that one of our kind fellow posters has uploaded onto a video sharing site, and obviously back then teams didn't have badges on their shirts, but when the teams were shown on the screen the Wigan team was shown with the current borough and former Latics crest as opposed to the Ancient & Loyal one. Did we ever change crests (I've seen pictures of the likes of Billy B with the current crest on) or was it just a BBC error?

My first final. I can only ever remember the current crest over all that time. I think it was a BBC error.

I can only remember the current crest. Just have a look at the 1965 Wembley jersey.

I don't believe we have ever had the 'metro' badge on our jerseys, in nearly all major finals (after 1946) we have had the town coat of arms (Ancient & Loyal) on the shirts apart from the years we had the oval W design (on the Nike kit) that was worn at Wembley v Sheffield, and of course in the inaugural Grand Final, we also wore it in the final game at Central Park.

There definitely was not a badge of any description on the players shirts for the 1983 JPT Final.

This was my first final too I was 6 I am sure that the only thing on the shirt was the maker called buckta it was in small letters on the right of the chest.

I know that (and mention it) but when the team sheets were shown on the screen before kick off the Wigan team was shown with the metro crest. My question was did we ever change our official crest, ie if we had got to Wembley in 83 would we have had that on our shirts, or was it a BBC errror which it seems to have been.

It was bukta, the version IIRC was the bukta 'marauder', this was the last season we wore it as umbro took over the following year, strangely though we wore the old kit for the first 2 games of the season (both away) and the new one made its appearance at home v Leigh.

Oi! 1983 is not "Old"!!!!

I was in Riley's snooker hall once and there is an old programme on the wall with a Metropolitan borough crest on it. I thought it was a Latics programme until I looked closer and it was deffo a Wigan one.

I'm almost certain that the 1983 Bukta shirt was my first replica shirt purchased. No sponsorship, plain cherry and white with collar.

Does anyone know if this was the first year the club released replica shirts for supporters. One thing I remember is I was definitely in a minority wearing mine at the time.

You could buy Bukta rugby shirts at almost any sports shops at the time, they were the most common available around that period. I believe the first 'official replicas' would be the umbro kit in 1984, these had no sponsors on as JJB only came on board for the Challenge Cup semi final against York at the latter end of the season (there was then a mad rush to get the flock JJB lettering ironed on).

I've still got my pre JJB Wigan shirt complete with Wigan 'ancient & loyal' embroidered badge on it. Made of cotton.

How many wiganers know the significance of the towns motto ?

Roy I remember you telling me that you were there for the presentation.

It was definitely the Bukta shirt I had. As seen on the photo below (not me BTW) also from 1983:

First town to have a motto in the English language.

Correct ! Battle of Wigan lane and all that.

Also, the ancient is connected to the roman settlement that they call "[icoccium[/i" that includes Wigan.

Interesting claim there mate !

Not heard that one before.

Whereas you were there for the battle

Whats the significance of the crest design. I can work out the King, but what about the castle and the lions?

From Wikipedia (I am assuming that common imagery in this and the Ancient and Loyal crest will have similar origins ie castle and lions)

Arms of Wigan Metropolitan Borough Council

The field of the arms consists of alternating gold and black lozenges or diamond shapes. Black lozenges are extensively used in British civic heraldry to symbolise coal mining, while each gold lozenge bears a red rose of Lancaster to represent the union of several Lancashire communities in the metropolitan borough. The chief or top section of the shield displays a couchant lion from the crest of the county borough.

On top of the helm is the crest which consists of a crowned castle and mountain ash tree. The castle and crown were in the county borough arms. The tree is included as a reference to the borough's name: the local name for the mountain ash being "Wiggin Tree".

The supporters are a gold crowned lion from the county borough arms, and a sparrowhawk from the arms of the Atherton family, and found in the devices of Atherton Urban District council and the Borough of Leigh.

Lots of info here.

[urlhttp://www.wiganworld.co.uk/stuff/ancientloyal2.php?opt=ancient&subopt=c[/url